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You are here: > News > August 24, 2012

Noble Gas Plasma or Aluminum Ring Electromagnet?

When an aluminum ring is placed next to a copper coil, it can be fired off as a projectile when an AC current is passed through the coil, creating a high amperage current flow in the ring, which induces a counter electromagnetic field. Something to keep in mind when validating noble gas engine claims.

See Wes' retraction below.

A demonstration of the firing of an aluminum ring via a copper coil.

by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News

For the past few weeks, I've been getting hammered with information from Wes Crosiar, who is adamant that anyone presently claiming noble gas engine technology works may actually be doing a simple parlor trick, which can be found readily on the web. 

You can take an aluminum ring, which is normally non-magnetic, place it near a copper coil, put AC current through the coil, which induces a thousand-ampere current flow in the aluminum, like in one turn of a transformer and the ring, creating a counter electromagnetic field, and the ring will be repelled/shot from the copper coil. If the ring is cut, nothing happens. I'm not sure if this effect works if the aluminum component is a disc, not a ring. Wes says a slug will work as well as a ring.

Whatever the case, whenever you see an alleged noble gas piston demonstration, you need to be sure to rule out this phenomenon as being the reason for the piston moving. It may have nothing to do with noble gas or plasma, though an arc heating any gas will create some expansion. So if the coils are alleged to be an important part of the noble gas design, you need to make sure that the net measurement shows much more energy being produced than what is required to run the engine.

The recent demonstration by Bob Rohner at the TeslaTech conference can be explained by this phenomenon.

Obviously, removing aluminum or other metals from the piston would be the best way to rule this out, such as by using a plastic piston instead. But if you look at some of the "plastic" pistons, you will see the aluminum ring embedded within them.

Here is a video of a guy from Hands On, Inc., showing how to demonstrate this effect. You can go to their website to see a brief explanation of this demonstration. They sell various demo units for science museums and exhibitions.

By the way, for any of you who are involved with the Tesla Museum at the old Wardenclyffe tower location, one idea for that museum would be to have a bunch of exhibits like they have at Hands On, but featuring more exotic effects, such as are demonstrated by John Bedini and Peter Lindemann.

Here's a video showing an electric piston engine in operation.

Here's one of the first emails from Wes, to give you an idea of his logic. (All of the quoted text below is slightly edited.)

From: John Stout <>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:21 PM

Hi Sterling: 

First I think the spark, exotic gases are an excellent way of commutating the motor. I do not believe the gases explode or implode. The advantage of this, in my opinion, is first, that the high voltage, low amperage spark creates a pathway for the low voltage high amperage capacitor discharge. 

Here is where I have a problem. Papp and the Rohners both suggest that there is an explosion/implosion that creates thrust in the piston when the exotic gases are ignited. 

I suggest that the sparkgap is nothing more than commutation to discharge the low voltage high amperage capacitor across the coils that surround the aluminum piston. link here:  Watch the first part of the video and note the pistons are aluminum similar to the projectile shown here:  

Keep in mind that this is done with nothing but electromagnetic induction that propels the aluminum ring, just like the Papp engine. 

Now you might ask, what is the second coil for? 

The answer is simple and is best illustrated visually as seen here.  You may notice that these experiments may look familiar if you watched the Rohner coil popper. I believe that is because they ARE THE SAME THING. 

Please follow all the links I provide below and watch and listen very carefully. The rockets you will see are nothing but an aluminum ring that shoots on electromagnetic induction propulsion ONLY. There is no explosion, propellant etc. 

While the Papp engine CAN produce a lot of power, you will see from the equations provided by the builders of the videos that I have provided that the efficiency of these systems is actually very low. 

The question will be raised, WHY ISN'T THERE MUCH HEAT PRODUCED IN THE COILS. 

I believe that the answer is: If the pulse is very short, because very low inductance capacitors are used AND quite a bit of inductance is used on the coils systems like the Joseph Newman motor, they won't produce much heat. 

When I talked to Robert Rohner, he told me the coils only fed back to the opposite coil or coil capacitor. When I asked him how this could be, because there was no electromagnetic induction produced by the aluminum piston to create a magnetic field in the coil and that no permanent magnet was in the system to do this, he answered "what electromagnetic induction?"

My answer is this. It is possible to create electromagnetic induction or electricity to make it simple by passing a magnet past a coil. I have never seen electricity produced by passing a piece of aluminum past a coil of wire. 

So, is this a hoax? No. This will motor and even produce much power, as you will see in the links below [that] I provide. But after watching the videos posted in the links, I think you will agree that this is HOW the pistons are driven in the motor and that they ARE NOT driven by exploding gases, etc. 

The advantage of the spark gap commutation is that the gasses do not have any oxygen to oxidize the thoriated tungsten rods or other electrodes. LINKS BELOW. AND MY CHALLENGE IS THIS. I CAN PRODUCE THRUST WITH ELECTROMAGNETIC INDUCTION ONLY. CAN THE PAPP MOTOR PRODUCE ANY ROTATION WITHOUT THE INDUCTORS WITH THE PAPP GAS ONLY? I DON'T THINK SO. 

On August 11, Wes wrote:
(Click on image for enlargement)

Hi Sterling, 

This is a very simplified schematic of just one side of the Papp engine, as I see it. 

The Torroid transformer is the closest depiction of the configuration of the Inteligentry motor. If you watch the video you will see the coils are both inside a close magnetic path similar to a toroid but much better. With high voltage, the secondary capacitor can either be rectified with diodes or with spark gap rectification. Since the secondary coil charges the opposing capacitor 180 degrees out of phase with the primary AND the fact that this capacitor is at rest there will be no charge interference. It is also possible to fire the first coil on one cylinder, then collect the energy into the secondary coil and feed it to the opposite cylinder's primary capacitor. Then fire the second coil using another capacitor and catch the collapsing field in the first coil you just pulsed, and feed this back into the opposite cylinder's capacitors. 

It is unlikely that they have got this far. I do not show the power supply circuit or the plasma trigger circuitry. 

There are several ways to trigger the huge lower voltage capacitor banks, including, but not limited to using high voltage ignition spark trigger with some kind of high voltage diodes on both the low voltage and high voltage output circuits. This can be done with Ignatrons, thyrotrons, high voltage diamond doped solid state switching mechanisms that are only available to the military at this time. OR PLASMA SPARK SWITCHING LIKE PAPP AND EV GRAY DID.

And on August 18, Wes wrote:
(Click on diagram image for enlargement)

Hi Sterling,

Here is the schematic I promised you. It should work as I drew it, but I have not ever built this circuit although I have successfully built many like it. The schematic is attached as well as proof from their own pictures that what I am saying is correct. Note the missing teeth on their internal gear. 

This gear is nothing but a timing gear. The missing teeth are where the crank trigger sends the signal to the onboard computer. Nothing high-tech here. All cars use this on their ignition system. 

What is cool about this is that it allows the advance and retard to be programmed into the computer so that if the motor needs more advance at different rpm's the computer will do this instead of unreliable springs and weights like the old ignition systems. 

The DOUBLE sparkgap has to be the way I drew it or the lower voltage capacitor bank will absorb the high voltage since the high voltage will seek the easiest path and no spark will occur. This can be done with lots of high voltage capacitors in the right configuration. BUT this method will not pass the huge amperage pulse necessary to launch the aluminum piston, [attached]. 

Also attached are the pictures of the gears [the] Rohners use for timing. Megasquirt is the standard in this industry for automotive ignition computer control systems. 

If you don't understand this don't feel bad. Walter Rosenthal didn't understand most of the circuits that I drew but when I built them they always worked. Other than using points or commutators, the circuit is as simple as it gets. 

Thanks Wes 

And today, he wrote:


Watch some of the videos I sent you. In particular, watch the Navy Railgun and note the projectile they use. It is a pointed projectile, looks to be about 2 feet long, three to four inches in diameter and is propelled by electromagnetic pulsing of coils on the railgun ONLY. It appears to be fired by high explosive [BUT IT IS NOT], because of the huge ball of flames coming out of the barrel. 

The navy believes the speeds reached by one of these electromagnetic guns can propel a rocket out of the gravitational pull of the earth. 

If you go to Google in IE, and click on more, and go to the bottom, and click on videos, you will see far more than youtube has to offer.  Also if you watch one of the first videos I sent you, watch HOMEGROWN MOVIE OF the 4 to 5 inch slugs that are fired at plywood, these look almost exactly like some of the pistons Rohner uses. 

To Prove they can fire a plastic piston, they will PONY UP and put some explosive gas into to the cylinder with their syringe to prove they can fire a plastic piston, ONCE. 

Please don't get caught up in their game by saying that their motor won't run. Like the video I sent you, their motor WILL run, and should run quite smoothly and with as much power as they put into it, LESS FRICTION AND OTHER ELECTRONIC LOSSES.

Rebuttal by Bob Rohner

On August 27, 2012 9:27 PM MDT, Bob wrote:


Wes, who called me a trickster, asked for the following video. It shows clearly that the coil is unnecessary for this half of the Papp cycle.


Evidence of this was on my other videos and my Tesla presentation. Am I the only one in the world who does his homework before he shoots his mouth off.

While you are on the above page, I have posted a video warning to popper builders. If Dr. Dr. Johns kit works (that is a very big if), some Booobee is going to get himself killed. We are not blowing up balloons or shooting tin can rings up in the air here. The power in that piston can blow a hole right through you.


On August 28, Wes responded:

I viewed the evidence presented by Robert Rohner, and I am now fully convinced that it is possible to drive the piston with the expansion of the noble gasses, "ONLY". I am waiting his response to the question: Are the coils in series with the sparkgap to aid in driving the pistons

He also provided some documentation of testing that was done on an original Papp engine that was immediately taken down. This is too bad because this is important evidence that needs to be seen. 

I posted a retraction, and where possible, [please] deleted any of my post that suggested that the noble gasses could not drive the pistons and that the coils were the only driving force. 

I believe the fact that Robert Rohner answered this question and others add greatly to his credibility. If it is possible, I think it is only fair that you place this retraction at the top of the ring popper webpage. 

# # #

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Page composed by Sterling D. Allan
Last updated October 02, 2012


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