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http://pesn.com/2012/08/18/9602162_My_Visit_to_Inteligentry/
You are here:
PureEnergySystems.com > News > August 18, 2012

My Visit to Inteligentry

On August 14, I was able to spend the day visiting the Inteligentry facility and personnel. Though I went in skeptical, having recently visited with some frustrated "manufacturers", I came away impressed.

See also below: John Rohner's Response to 12 Concerns - John sent me his rebuttals to the 12 concerns I mentioned that I encountered in talking to some of the "manufacturers" of the Inteligentry engine. I've posted my responses as well, which indicate my level of frustration with John.

Shown from left to right: Mark Koppin, Dan Glover, myself, Tana Kane, John Rohner; standing behind the Inteligentry engine and an off-the-shelf 25 kW generator it is designed to run.
(Photo by T.J. There are over 100 available.)


by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News


Last Tuesday, I was able to spend the day visiting the Inteligentry facility and personnel. Though I went in skeptical, I came away very favorably inclined.

My trip was covered by a person I met at the TeslaTech conference, who is interested in licensing the technology. He wishes for his identity to be anonymous, so I'll just call him T.J. here.


Background

For those of you who might not follow our news regularly, Inteligentry is John Rohner's company, based in Las Vegas. They claim to be in process of bringing a noble gas engine to market.

With very few moving parts, it could potentially (when mass produced) cost a third of what a regular engine of comparable output costs. Meanwhile, its fuel cost is negligible. It's kind of like a Stirling engine -- a sealed system -- except that the expanding component is internal, and comes by way of a plasma form of inert, noble gasses, which are not consumed in the process, and which are environmentally benign anyway. The expansion of the plasma allegedly moves the piston in a way similar to how steam does. Known as the "Plasmic Transition Process™" Engine, it is essentially a 3rd generation Papp engine based on PlasmERG's patented design.


Went in Skeptical

As those of you who follow our news regularly know, I have been generally favorable in my coverage of Inteligentry.

However, I should say that going in to the visit in Vegas, I was in a mindset of strong skepticism, having had the opportunity recently to speak with some frustrated "manufacturers" of the Inteligentry engines.

To his credit, a few weeks ago, John had given me some contact info for several of his manufacturing groups. I was hoping to be able to go see some engines in the process of being made, as well as to talk to some people who were sold on the technology, having seen it work for themselves.

Instead, what I encountered in talking to some of the people involved in manufacturing was frustration from:

  1. No one has seen a working unit.
  2. The date for being able to see a working unit keeps getting postponed.
  3. The engines as presently constituted are not well-engineered. John is a software/hardware engineer, not an engine engineer.
  4. John's instructions for the engine have come in the form of napkin drawings (or that ilk), which have had to be converted to professional renderings.
  5. Communication with John has been sparse, hampering progress.
  6. The engine as presently constituted (per John's specs), by whatever driving force, couldn't turn at more than 500 rpm for more than a few minutes without being damaged.
  7. The Harley Davidson rods being used were designed for a V-approach with counterbalances, but are being used in a linear approach; and are synchronous, rather than opposing.
  8. The engines are not likely to be air-tight to contain the noble gases for a long duration, especially under pressure.
  9. Manufacturers have not yet been able to replicate the plasma effect.
  10. In the past, there have been conflicts/contradictions in how license territories are being assigned different groups.
  11. No signed contracts.
  12. It would seem that the credibility provided by the present engines that have been built is being used to draw in fresh blood and money to propagate the operation, when in reality, the engine is essentially non-functional.

That gives you an idea of the weight I was under when I walked through the doors of Inteligentry on Tuesday. I was expecting that the outcome of my visit was going to be to do an exposι. As much as I want this company to be for real, I owe it to my readers to let them know when things just aren't what I thought they were.


Lambasted for the Bill and Harry Story

As a few of us gathered around a conference table, the first thing John did when he walked in was ask me something to the effect (referring to my latest story: Bill Clinton and Harry Reid allegedly supporting Inteligentry), "What in the hell do you think you were doing associating me with two politicians?" He was not pleased with the barrage of emails and comments he had been getting because of that story, both from the politician haters as well as the politician supporters.

I reminded him that I had informed him that I planned on publishing my email to him, which included a link to Bob's account of John's alleged statements about Clinton and Reid's initial/tentative support of the Inteligentry technology, and their willingness to send the IRS after Bob and CEI (and my warning him about the karma that was sure to follow such actions).

John said emphatically that he did not compose that email, but that Bob had fabricated it, and that no such meeting took place between him and Clinton/Reid.

Based on John's statements to me on the phone about how beneficial it would be to get support from Clinton/Reid (John doesn't buy into the "conspiracy theory" that portrays people like Clinton/Reid as being puppets to dark overlords bent on bringing the planet into world tyranny), I don't know how much I believe that he did not compose that email to Bob, making up the part about meeting with them and what they said, just to get a rise out of his brother. Given the kind of immature bantering that goes on between these two, I would not put it past John. But I could also believe that Bob did fabricate the alleged email from John, just to stir things up.

I've seen such behavior over the years between two of my in-laws. They recently spent $7k on attorney fees fighting over $2k in cash that their mother left when she died. The older brother had spend most of that on the funeral, and the younger brother, the perpetual trouble-maker, said that was his money. But rather than just let it slide, against his attorney's advice, the older brother spent all that money just to prove he was right. That's one of a score of equally ridiculous stories I could tell. One is the aggressor and usually the instigator of ridiculous behavior, and the other is the enabler, feeding the crazy behavior, spurring more to come.

Having that crazy example to go from, and having seen quite a bit of the emails back and forth between John and Bob, it seems to me that they are in a similar pattern, with Bob being the younger instigator, and John feeding the crazy behavior by not just ignoring it. But how do you ignore it when it gets so out of hand? Thursday, Bob (and apparently Heinz, too) lodged a complaint with YouTube that all of John's videos were Bob's (including their original videos), so YouTube removed access to all of them (what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?). Meanwhile, recall that Bob posted his TeslaTech 2012 presentation against the copyright rules of that conference. (Story)

In John's defense, I'll say this. Bob told me that John was living high on the money received from this "scam", having two homes, etc.  In reality, John and his wife Connie are renting a home, and John has no teeth, choosing to spend his money on the technology rather than on dentists. That is a fact I saw first-hand -- no teeth. You can't fake that. Bob's portrayal is absolutely not true on that one. That is one of the biggest arguments against the "scam" allegation -- the dedication that going toothless portrays is obvious.

As John laid into me for the Bill and Harry story, I'm glad I bit my tongue for the most part, because I was right on the edge of fighting back, and that would have escalated to a termination of my visit. Once he had that off his chest, John cooled off and was great to be around. Remember, at this initial part of our visit, I was in that "verge of exposι" mode.


Popper Kits to Ship Soon

Right about then, a UPS shipment arrived, with some samples they had been expecting for the $350 Popper kit they announced at the TeslaTech conference in Albuquerque. They received over 100 orders, and it was clear to me that getting these out was a high priority for them.

These kits supposedly will enable people to see for themselves that noble gas can be put into a plasma state that can cause a piston to move. If they want an operational engine, then in the future, they will hopefully be able to get one from Inteligentry, beginning December 11, 2012, at the PowerGen conference in Orlando, Florida.

One of the things holding them back from finishing the kit was that they were having a hard time finding a good housing for the electronics circuit. I saw John's face erupted into a big grin as he pulled the casings out of the UPS packaging and saw that they would fit.

Near the end of the day, another milestone was achieved. John's son, Matt, finished the programming for the circuit board, so now the ball is in Dan Glover's court to shoot a video showing how to install it on the popper and run it.


Tour of the Facility


(The blank plate was the rental T.J. had. They were supposed to remedy that the next day.)

As we approached the facility, I was impressed by how nice it looked. I had been expecting something with more of an industrial look. The hall inside the 10,000 square feet is shaped kind of like a G. They have more than ten office rooms, so that each of the 10 full-time people on the team has their own room. The person who has been doing the build-out was working on those as we walked through. And John's wife, Connie, has a studio room to do her painting. Her paintings are found on the walls throughout the facility. There are at least two rooms that will be used for the training on how to build and run the engines.

Near the end of the tour, when we were back in the larger room where several engines are sitting, John proudly showed us the circuitry they have developed that will enable the manufacturers to get the right mixture of noble gases to put into the finished engine.

One thing about noble gasses is that as a mixture sits, it settles. "That's why the [dormant] engine turns two cycles before it begins firing," John explained.

Here's some of their equipment:




Lunch Without John

After the tour of the facility, we went to lunch on Inteligentry's treat. John stayed behind, saying that this is the only way he is able to get to his email and other ongoing tasks, lest they pile up.

As I rode with Dan Glover to lunch, I began addressing some of the frustrations that had been communicated to me by some of the manufacturers. Overall, his response was: "We know; and we're working on it."

Dan sees Inteligentry as being at the pivotal turning point comparable to the early days of Apple computers, when they went from being Steve Jobs in his garage largely alone, to having a team working together to bring about Steve's vision. John is the first to admit that he makes mistakes and needs help of a team to pull this off.

Dan used to work with a web design team doing MGM Grand's website. He knows the corporate world, and he loves the contrast he sees with John's team. (And yes, he's working on a new website for Inteligentry.) He also was a practicing attorney. He will take the Nevada bar soon. For him, the excitement of what Inteligentry can become, and the difference it can make in the world, makes his former job at MGM seem silly in comparison, even though the pay at Inteligentry is presently small, at least for now. Everyone at Inteligentry is paid the same: $2500 / month. Clearly, they are not in this for the money.

T.J., Tana, Mark, Dan, and I were at lunch for probably a couple of hours, talking through all kinds of things, largely having to do with the manufacturer's frustrations I mentioned above. To the Inteligentry team, none of the obstacles were insurmountable. In response to the above list, here is the Inteligentry response as I understand it:

  1. Not showing a working unit is a key strategy to maintain the "un-credible" image to keep them under the radar and give them time to get geared up and ready for the attention that will come to them once they go public with a working unit in December at the PowerGen conference. John referred to Bloom Box as an example. After being quiet, they came out with a big splash announcement on 60 Minutes, and received a barrage of orders; but it turned out they had a bug in their system, and they weren't able to fulfill any orders. Now the bug has been fixed, but the attention has long since passed. They messed up their opportunity. 
  2. The new target date for manufacturers to get their engines running, with John's assistance, is a couple of weeks away.
  3. Now that there is a team helping John, they will be able to help coordinate the manufacturers working together to come up with a good first version design for the engine. Mark will be the primary contact for that.
  4. Now that there is a device design person, Nora, working full-time, a full set of 3-D drawings should be available soon. She will be coordinating everything that has to do with this.
  5. Now that the team around John has been brought largely up to speed on their tasks, they will be able to handle the licensees' communications much better.
  6. With the team input, the engine design should be able to be tweaked soon, to enable a version 1.0 release.
  7. See 6.
  8. See 6.
  9. The release of the Popper kit will also give manufacturers the ability to replicate and study the noble gas plasma effects.
  10. The PTP Licensing subsidiary, with Tana and Dan, is now handling all of the licensing.
  11. PTP Licensing will be handling the contracts to get them squared away.
  12. Even without having seen a working device yet, the team has enough confidence in the concept and in John's abilities, to be willing to take the risk to be involved in helping this move to its next stage of development.


Working Unit Mentioned on Larry Seyer's Show

When we got back to the facility, I asked John about what he had reported in his interview recently with Larry Seyer's The Most Dangerous Device show.  In that interview (at 8:23 minutes), John said that one engine has been running 1 year, 9 months on one fuelling.

T.J.'s and my question for him was, "Where is it, and why can't we (and Inteligentry team members and manufacturers) go see that one?"

His response was that his contract with that client is such that the client does not want people traipsing through to see it, and he is going to honor that contract. He said it puts out 70 kilowatts, continuous. And, he said that according to their math, it should have stopped running two months ago, but it hasn't.

On Friday, I asked John: "If you have a unit somewhere that has been running 1 year, 9 months continuously, outputting 70 kW, that is a majorly successful scenario. Where are the drawings for that, and why weren't they given to the present manufacturers to work from?"

Here is his response (slightly edited) :

From: John Rohner 
To: Sterling Allan 
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: Drawings from successful engine?



Sterling

Simple enough.
- The new engine has been evolved to be easy to service and efficient. 
- The new engine can auto refuel, on the fly, the older one can not. 
- The new engine has a much more sophisticated control system and some extra safety features.
- The old engine is a lab experiment and the new engine is mass producible.
- The old engine weighs 210 lbs the new engine will weigh in at 38 lbs. 
- The new engine is meant to grow a business around and the old engine was just to check a lab unit.

Will that be enough or should I add a few more.
Simply put the new engine is a production unit and the old engine was a "lab" unit to provide data for the evolution to a new engine.

Enjoy Life
John

While improvements can always be made, an engine that runs for 1 year and 9 months continuously on one fuelling seems plenty good to me as a version 1.0 release. I would think that the manufacturers would benefit from seeing the plans for that device. Surely, it was built from a set of plans.

Here is John's response to that (slightly edited) :

From: John Rohner 
To: Sterling Allan 
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: Drawings from successful engine?



Sterling

It was a lab experiment made from welding steel plates together for the block, and parts from hand drawings. It was not something that was easy to make in production. It also could not be refilled on the run and they were not easily reproduced.

There are more engines than you know, working, doing various things. All are TEST, "LAB"-grade engines that prove one idea or another as the engine evolved. None were ever considered to be "mass" produced, so the amount of time and effort to build them was never a consideration. A production engine must be designed from the first drawing to be easy to machine, manufacture and produce. You won't make money on a lab experiment, BUT you get data that gets rolled into patent applications to protect your ideas as you try them.

Also consider, if you did release something that is not easily replicated, your whole business goes broke, because you will fail to keep step with the demand. Production must be easy enough for any company to do, and do easily, in a way that provides a steady and evolutionary faster and less expensive engine, without massive engineering investment and retooling, etc. We have set that standard with "standard" engines. The engine manufacturers can then take the "standard" and bend it as they want to anything they want, and they have the "Standard" engine to provide the cash flow to develop their new engines, without killing time and their monies to do it.

If we want our manufacturers to be successful, and we do, we must give them something they can replicate easily as a cash flow floor, to support their evolution to the next stages, sizes, etc. Providing a "lab experiment" simply puts them under pressure and drains their cash, slowing them from providing the volumes needed to make the engine viable. Keep in mind that two years down stream they will need to be producing nearly 35 million engines a year. There are 87 million Combustion engines made now a year.

So we have spent our time getting the best, easiest, reproducible sample available to help support them so they can be successful and get the needed growth to actually have some effect on our world.

Enjoy Life
John


Dinner at the Top of the World

When we arrived at the Inteligentry facility, T.J. offered to take the entire crew and their spouses (if they had one) to dinner at the Stratosphere, where he and I were staying. Most of the crew, including John and Connie, have never been to the Top of the World restaurant. It rotates once every hour and twenty minutes, 800 feet above ground, with a skydiver jumping every ten minutes or so.

We arrived at 7:00 pm, and were there for three hours. So we got to see the sunset and the Vegas lights. The meal presentation and flavor was amazing.

Besides the jovial conversation and joking we did, probably my favorite part of the evening was when John and Connie described how each of the ten team members showed up, as if sent from the angels, with just the right talents. They seem to get along well with each other, too.



When the check for the meal arrived, I took a quick glance, and I think it was around $1600 for the sixteen of us. T.J. didn't seem to mind. He was pleased to see the Inteligentry team enjoying themselves, with some of the spouses meeting the team for the first time, in this setting.

The next day, after dropping me off at the airport, he bought stock and two licenses. He hopes his group can have lots of product ready for the December 11 launch. They are certainly capable.


P.S. John's Response to the 12 Points

John gave the following in response (slightly edited) to the twelve points above. John's responses to the points are in (parenthesis). My comments, following his, are in [blue brackets; posted Aug. 19; 1 pm MDT].


Dan Glover talks to Sterling

From: John Rohner 
To: Sterling Allan 
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: Story: My Visit to Inteligentry



Well I can bet I know who these came from as I know these people all personally.

Here are your points and my counter points.

  1. No one has seen a working unit. (Maybe, even if they had, they could not discuss it!) [If anyone should be entitled to see a functioning unit -- confidentially -- it should be the manufacturers. Even if no one is allowed to visit the working engine by contract, due to the customer not wanting lots of visitors, I can't see why it could not have been videotaped showing that it runs and what the output is. -- Sterling]
  2. The date for being able to see a working unit keeps getting postponed. (They were supposed to have 2 engines each, ready 2 weeks after the last meeting; and these were going to be assembled by them run for them. They never showed, now 4 months later). [Obviously, at least one group has been productive, since there are 5 engines on display there at Inteligentry, as shown in photos we've been provided for a few months.]
  3. The engines as presently constituted are not well-engineered. John is a software/hardware engineer, not an engine engineer. (Interesting, since we have been told by many mechanical engineers, and their magazines, about how good our design is.) [Brownnosers? That's not the sentiment I'm getting from the comments, etc. And the unit you had on a test jig (not running unit) there in your shop was wobbling significantly even at a low speed.]
  4. John's instructions for the engine have come in the form of napkin drawings (or that ilk), which have had to be converted to professional renderings. (This is also interesting since all were given 3D drawings, and in some cases 3D plastic prints, as you can see from our web site; and we even provided machined blocks and complete bottom ends. They made head rings, head, piston and cylinder ONLY. First round, and we provided bottom ends and castings for their current overdue engines.) [I saw the plans one group was given recently, and they were definitely inadequate.]
  5. Communication with John has been sparse, hampering progress. (Again interesting, as anyone that has ever called here can attest. I talk to everyone. BUT! not my own manufacturers?) [Speaking for myself, I have a hard time getting in touch with John. It's not impossible, but it's not easy.]
  6. The engine as presently constituted (per John's specs), by whatever driving force, couldn't turn at more than 500 rpm for more than a few minutes without being damaged. (Interesting, I presume this is conjecture if number 1 is true. How would they know? However the engine has no such limitation, and is very stable. Sounds like BS to me.) [There are many ways to test an engine, using alternative rotation sources, such as a drill, etc. That's why I used the phrase "whatever driving force".]
  7. The Harley Davidson rods being used were designed for a V-approach with counterbalances, but are being used in a linear approach; and are synchronous, rather than opposing. (Don't know what this means, as it is true, the Harley is a V, and we are opposed; but a local engine shop has verified we are balanced by the counter weight, as we should be, and all crankshafts are.)
  8. The engines are not likely to be air-tight to contain the noble gases for a long duration, especially under pressure. (Another interesting point from someone that evidently thinks that a chamber that maintains the same volume in operation and is at the same pressure as the outside will somehow build up pressure and leak. I guess they missed the sealing the engine part of the build too.) [The net pressure at rest might be 1 atm; but if you have a piston flying back and forth, there is no way the pressure stays at 1 atm. It will go through compression and decompression wildly, and gases will want to escape, and come in. I can't fathom how an engine could keep its gas mixture. Smaller elements (e.g. helium) will leak the most; the ratio will not last. That's what I would expect.]
  9. Manufacturers have not yet been able to replicate the plasma effect. (Was not aware that anyone had tried. Maybe that explains why they have not supplied engines to us as they are too busy trying to "copy" it without our controller? There are things they have not been told. So if they try and copy it, I can understand it not working. No controller no worky!, as well.) [If you don't want people replicating the core effect just so they can see it works, why then are you selling the Popper kits? I don't see anything wrong with manufacture's wanting to confirm that effect. It's not a matter of them trying to work around you, it's a matter of them wanting to have validation that they are involved in a viable technology, since you've not let them see a working engine.]
  10. In the past, there have been conflicts/contradictions in how license territories are being assigned different groups. (Wow, licensing has not changed in almost 2 years, so I can't say I understand this comment either. We did have to drop the state license when the "Tea Baggers" killed the "Farmers Energy independence" Initiative. And we did add a "Masters" engine manufacturing license, which these are all, to fill the gap between people wanting to use engines and the lack of people wanting to build them.) [It seems you are in denial. Good luck to your team in sorting through the many contradictions in territories and terms.]
  11. No signed contracts. (This is certainly an interesting statement. At the first Manufacturers meeting, all 3 manufacturers present were given licenses, signed by me AND stock. All of our master engine manufacturers are stockholders. ALL have signed Licenses. At our next manufacturers' meeting, now reset back a week due to some personal conflicts by some manufacturers with the old date, [any] that do not have signed licenses will get them, and a copy of the license is posted online that can be downloaded any time.) [It's your word against multiple manufacturers that say otherwise. I'm sure they'll be glad to have this rectified.]
  12. It would seem that the credibility provided by the present engines that have been built is being used to draw in fresh blood and money to propagate the operation, when in reality, the engine is essentially non-functional. (Well, if they think this then they need to contact us and we will reclaim their license and provide it to some "Fresh" blood that will get things done on time and without trying to copy it, or do understand manufacturing and how machine tools work etc. It is true we have expanded the original 5 regions into more because we lost faith in our original or lost one or another, manufacturers. We now plan to provide this same license to any company that can prove they can do the work and have the needed engines in stock by the Dec 11 deadline. We are 4 months behind because of depending on such a small group; and that, plus the inactivity, or inability, of one of our people to perform it is so. If you wish to challenge the functionality, come to PowerGen. Or in their case, get done what you agreed to do, before we cancel your license and stock. We are tired of being held back.)

I hope this gives some info and better answers. I do know where these remarks came from. Except I have no clue who would be crazy enough to "copy" the engine and hope to run it without the proper control, which no one but us has and even electronic like coils etc. That one does bother me as it means one of the 4 is Planning to break their word and can not be trusted. [Their wanting to replicate the core effect should not be seen as evidence that they want to work around you, as mentioned above for point 9 above. They have never wanted to go around Inteligentry. All they want and have ever wanted is confirmation of the phenomenon. They have had many discussions within their groups that even if they did come up with our own version or an improvement to the process, they would turn this over to the Inteligentry group as part of their information sharing agreement.]

Enjoy Life
John

 

Stock v. License

Aug. 21; 9 am MDT postscript

I was impressed in two things regarding the licenses: 1) their low price, not preventing entry; 2) that the license funds are put into escrow until the licensee witnesses a working unit. Puts you at ease, right?

However, it turns out that PTP Licensing has a "deal" for stockholders, that for a certain amount of stock, you can get a license included. That way, they get spendable money.

Furthermore, I've seen them move their "we won't be selling any more stock after x date" deadline several times. It's that feeling of "purchase now or you'll loose out on this opportunity."

Comments:

The following was received by email:

Machinery has all kinds of ways to wear-out and fail.  Experience is the best teacher towards discovering the weaknesses in a design.  That is why in the course of developing a product there will be many intermediate devices built that work to some level or another.  Less than four months before retail sale, there should have been many engines run through burn in under load.  There is no evidence that Inteligentry's location has a single fixture capable of testing an engine at load, much less many.

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Page composed by Sterling D. Allan
Last updated October 02, 2012
 
 

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