G: Ok. Well, good afternoon everyone, and welcome to a special Saturday edition of the Smart Scare Crow show. Glad to see so many in attendance, just checking those who are watching, live, from Justin TV. This is a good bit larger than our typical crowd. Looks like we got just under forty actively logged in to the chat room. Looks like we have got about a hundred more than that watching, live, from Justin TV. Looks like a hundred and forty four Justin TV, thirty nine logged into the chat room. Now I would mention to those who are watching without being logged in to justin.tv, if you are interested in engaging in chat we do have a pretty active chat room going on right now. You will have to establish an account on Justin TV and be logged in, in order to engage in chat. It is not my rule, it is justin.tv's rule. If you would like to join us in chat, please setup an account on justin.tv. It is free. It is not going to cost you anything. Log into the coatroom and you will find about forty other folks in there who are throwing rotten vegetables at each, talking bad about each others mommas. In any case, for this special Saturday presentation, we have a live interview with Andrea Rossi coming to us all the way from Italy.
We have been fighting issues with justin.tv most of the afternoon. I do a pre-show broadcast where I play a bunch of music videos before the show. That helps me monitor the Justin TV system. I can see how it is going, and boy the available frame rate is in the toilet right now. So I can tell you what I have done, is I have dramatically reduced the complexity of the output stream that I am sending to justin.tv. Basically, to conserve on bandwidth and try to make the most of what Justin has available to give us today. But I am recording this session in as high quality as I possibly can, so later on if you do decide to see it as a re-run, it will be posted up on YouTube and all the other various sites that I post these things. And I can assure you the quality of the recording should be up to our usual standards.
Right now if you will stand by, without any further ado, I am going to go ahead and turn the show over to Sterling Allan who will introduce Mr. Rossi, and move us right along into tonight's presentation. Here we go. Stand by..
S: Hi Gary.
G: I think i have your audio live. Frankly, I am going to mute myself, but as soon as you introduce our special guest for the day, I'll be cutting over and making his audio live also.
S: I would like to welcome you to chime in at times as you like to get clarification. Maybe somebody has a hankering question, we have gone past the topic and maybe you want to get back to that topic with a question that has been coming from the audience. Feel free to chime in, OK?
G: Sure. I will be monitoring the chat room. Now you fellows in the chat room. What I hope we can do is save about ten or fifteen minutes towards the end of the session today where we will specifically address the live audience for questions. I would hate to interrupt any planned presentations right in the middle to address audience questions. If a really, really really godo questions comes to mind, I'm going to do my Lindsey William's thing, please get a pencil and a piece of paper and write your question down and at the appropriate time we will field whatever questions and comments might be available out there.
S: That sounds like a good plan so we are planning on having this last about an hour, so the last fifteen minutes will be the questions from the live audience. So we can get those addressed. We have gotten preliminary questions that have been sent by email and other means. If you can keep track of the justin.tv chat, I will keep track of the chat at the bottom of our PESWiki page, where people can post questions live as well. And then Gary if you could send through Skype chat to me, any hot questions that are coming in through Justin TV that would be great. If I don't get to those, then we can address those at the end. Sounds like a plan?
G: Sounds like a plan. Take it away Sterling. It is all yours.
S: Alright, thanks for hosting this live Free Energy Now interview on your Smart Scare Crow program. And everyone else out there, welcome to the show. You can find our program index at Freeenergynow.net where you can see a list of past guests, listen tot those interviews, and read the stories associated with their appearances.
We are honored today to be able to interview Andrea Rossi, the inventor of the E-CAt or Energy Catalyzer, a heat generator using cold fusion technology, also called LENR or Low Energy Nuclear Reactions. Today is a landmark day marking the one year anniversary of the press conference they held on January 14, 2011 in Bolonga, Italy, where he announced and demonstrated a ten kilowatt cold fusion module. What a year it has been as we have watched this unfold.
The E-Cat utilizes small amounts of nickel powder, hydrogen gas, and a proprietary catalyst under a bit of pressure and small heat, to produce a safe and clean form of nuclear fusion. This form of nuclear fusion requires no radioactive materials, produces no radioactive waste, and emits no pollution into the environment. The low price and other advantages could make this the much sought solution to the energy crisis. The E-Cat went commercial on Oct. 28th last year, an event I was privileged to attend, rolling out a one megawatt plant. Andrea Rossi is planning to go into production with a ten to twenty kilowatt heat device, launching one million units this fall. national instruments is assisting with the controls for those units.
Andrea Rossi is an engineer, businessman, and inventor. He came up with a biofuel generator technology a couple, well a few years back. And has been running that business, sold that business to finance the research and development on this technology. Originally from Italy he now resides in the United States, though today he is in Rome. And Andrea Rossi we welcome you to this program. Thank you for joining us.
A: Thank you very much. I am honored to be with you tonight.
S: Thank you. We are covering a wide range of time zones, all the way from morning iN Hawaii to near midnight your time in Rome. People from all over the plant listening in...
G. Matter of fact I noticed a few people in the chat room from way down under. I know we have got a couple out there from New Zealand and Australia. So you are talking to the world.
A. Thank you. Thank you very much.
S. Lets start out by giving just a little bit of background. You are currently residing in the states, originally from Italy. Can you tell us about your early life? What was it like growing up in Italy?
A. I have made in Italy from 1970 when I started to work. I was born in 1950. I have made biomass energy, power and energy plants. And that has been my source of work. And when in 1989, Fleischmann and Pons made their press conference announcing their discovery, I had been fascinated from that effect. From that period I started to try to reproduce their effect, and I did not succeed to reproduce it with their system. So I have researched other systems. And around 2006 or 2007 we started to have an amount of energy produced using low energy nuclear reactions. And at that point I have focused the attention exclusively on this issue. As you correctly said, I sold all my other businesses and financed this research. I asked the help of the University of Bologna through Professor Focardi, and I must say that initially I asked him to be a consultant to us, to show me that my system could never work. To make me free from it, because it was an obsession. It was too good to be true, so I said, "Please explain to me why it does not work." And after some day he said, "I have some bad news for you, I think the system works." And so it is worth it for you to stay in this track. We worked together, we asked his consulting mainly for the safety issues, to go ahead with the experiments in a safe way, and to make the prototypes so that they could be safe. And then we arrived to the presentation of one year ago, when we were ready to present an apparatus able to produce an energy that was usable in real industrial situations. I hope that my English is enough to let you understand what I am saying. I do not, I hope it is good for the listeners to understand what I am saying.
S. I understand it quite well. You do fine. Thank you. I will try and articulate my questions so you can understand. We should tell the audience that your computer internet connection, you are having problems with it presently, so we were not able to give you the most recent set of questions. You do have some earlier questions that we had ready to present. The next question I would like to ask is if you could give us just a short introduction to the E-Cat, how it works.
A. Yes. Do you hear me?
S. Yes. Go ahead.
A. Very good. Yes. The E-Cat we must put a distinction between the industrial plants, and what will be the domestic plants that we will start to deliver in the next winter. In any case, the kind of module of an E-Cat is made by a small emp... a small box as big as a box of cigarettes to give an idea. Inside which there is a powder of nickel, and is compressed hydrogen. Inside this.. and there are also the catalyzers from which the name E-Cat, which is a shortcut for Energy Catalyzer, the differentials of pressure and temperature properly handled produce an effect that emits a low energy gamma rays. The gamma rays then hit the wall of lead, and the lead turns the gamma rays, the low energy gamma rays, into heat. The heat then heats the water that flows outside the reactor, and this is why heating is produced.
To produce a megawatt power of energy, we employ a very, very very tiny amount of hydrogen and nickel. And this effect has now been understood very well. And the theory will be presented soon. And this way, we can produce energy without emission of any kind of gas, without as you correctly said production of any kind of waste, without of course using radioactive materials, without leaving radioactive materials. Without emission of CO2, or noise, or anything else. So it is environmentally friendly.
S. Also, the technology cannot melt down as you might hear of a nuclear plant melting down. There is no possibility of doing that, correct?
A. No, because we do not use radioactive materials. Since the materials that we use are nickel and hydrogen, should the temperature go too high, at that point the nickel which is just nickel, like the nickel of the five cent, five cents of dollar, that is a nickel too. And the nickel when it melts is no more powder. Then the E-Cat cannot work if the nickel is not powder. So automatically intrinsically we say, if the temperature goes too high, the E-Cat turns out. It is switched off, because has no more proper nickel in powder form to operate.
S. OK. Very good. Another question I have, and I have actually wanted to ask you this many times over the past year. In your press conference you talked about a facility that had been heated using your E-Cat technology. I'm curious, is that facility still being heated by that technology. So now it is two years continuous? Or has that been terminated.
A. The facility that used the very first generation of E-Cat for a couple of years to heat, the room etc, is the facility that I sold to finance this production. And that particular facility has been closed, but E-Cats are right now working in rooms and houses of ours. Just to test them in continuous. So we have E-Cats that are working in continuous right now, just to test them.
S. So can we say that facility has now been powered for three years continuous?
A. Two years.
S. Two years.
A. Yes. It is important what you are saying. What we produce now is just heat. Because we have not yet resolved the problems that we have to turn this heat into electric energy. It will take between one and two years to be able to make E-Cats that make also electricity, besides heat. For now we are just heating with our E-Cats.
S. I understand the technology utilizes normal nickel which is very abundant, and ordinary hydrogen which is basically inexhaustible. In a future, lets say that the E-Cat becomes ubiquitously used around the plant, reaches market penetration. Could you conceive of having a nickel shortage because of all these devices being powered by tiny amounts of nickel accumulated with many devices would turn into a lot of nickel?
A. Absolutely not. The amount of nickel that we consume is very, very tiny respect to the amount of nickel that is produced. To understand well this I can use numbers. You must consider that one gram of matter of mass of matter, of nickel or anything in this world is equal... can produce if turned into heat, can produce twenty three thousand megawatt hours of energy. Again, one gram of mass, of nickel, can produce twenty three thousand megawatts of energy. If you think this, you can imagine that even if this kind of technology will be well used in our planet, the amount of nickel consumed in one year will be less than 1% of the nickel that today is produced in the world. And so the answer to your question, is that no. It is impossible that there can be shortages of nickel because it is absolutely. It is irrelevant the amount that is consumed. That's it.
S. Thank you. Regarding, you have conducted at least a dozen tests in the last year. I'm curious which of those tests do you feel best about in terms of how solidly, or credibly it presented a case to prove the technology.
A. Well, we have made, yes, many public tests. But you must consider that we make tests everyday in our laboratory with our consultants, with our apparatus. Now the technology is very solid, the E-Cats now are very stable. We have manufacturing right now, one megawatt plants why for the domestic small E-Cats, we, first of all, we have started the certification process with underwriter laboratories, which will be necessary to sell the E-Cats. And at the same time, we are engineering, right now, we are preparing a totally robotized manufacturing factory, which will be able to produce one million pieces per year. This will be in the United States. And I am honored to say this, because I reside in the USA. I love the United States, and I wanted for many reasons that now I cannot explain, to develop in the United States this technology. And I want that this technology is American.
S. Can you say which state in the United States the production will be?
A. In Florida. And at this point, the very important issue now for many reasons is to push the price of an E-Cat very, very down. Because this technology must be for all. And I want that a ten kilowatt E-Cat costs around $500 dollars. To make this we must absolutely robotize and engineer very well the manufacturing lines, because you know, to compete... because once we will have defused our devices, our E-Cats, in the market, we will be subject to copies, intentional copies and competition. And to compete against, also because yes, we have patents pending, but to be sure that the reverse engineering will not put in jeopardy our production, we had to make it the best way to fight against the competition is to have a very low price. This is the effort that now we are making, because I foresee that we will have to compete against production made in China, and we have China or other countries where, of course the work... We cannot compete against that kind of system, social system that makes the work have costs that are unsustainable for us. So we have to fight against them with best, better engineering in the production lines. Now our efforts are passed from the technology of the E-Cat which is mature and stable right now, to the engineering system. Because if not, we have won the battle of the technology, we risk to go to lose the war of the competition. Which is why now we have to work very hard on the engineering. And we are doing it. There is so we will be able to put in the market in a very cheap way, and you will be surprised from the very high level of easiness of use of the E-Cat. We are making it a very.. a very good... engineering. Sorry, maybe I have been too long, but you know, I got, I have, been got from, the floor of what we are doing.
S. No that is fine. You just have to understand if you give long answers we will have to stay longer.
A. Thank you.
S. I should mention that I don't think we have any limitations on time here. WE are shooting for an hour..
G: Absolutely no limitations. We can go until Mr. Rossi gets tired. I understand it is almost 11 o'clock in the evening where he is I am not sure what time his bed time is but I can tell you by 11 o clock I start thinking about my jammies and a warm bed.
A. Do not worry. Do not worry. I am very, I am delighted to be with you tonight.
S. Great! If we hear your head plunk down on the desktop then we will know it is time to stop.
A. Sorry, I did not hear excuse me.
S. I just made a joke that if we hear your head plunk down on the desk, we will know it is time to stop.
S. Ok. Another question. In terms of the size of the device, I just actually wanted to make a comment too. When you talk about 500 dollars for a ten kilowatt heat unit, my understanding is that the conventional, or the competition right now, is around $1,000 dollars per kilowatt. So $500 dollars for ten kilowatts is five percent of what people are paying right now for a comparable system. So, you are saying that the competition you are trying to stay below, is not the present competition, but the upcoming competition that would use this technology. Correct?
A. Yes, is correct. We must foresee reverse engineer and to put knock out the reverse engineering that will come from, from countries that do not respect the standards of welfare of workers that we respect in the USA. We have to be prepared so that it will be impossible to beat us under the economic point of view. If not, we will make the end of the companies like Solyndra or the other one, that you know started making solar panels, but then arrived the Chinese and they have been put out of business. And you know, we have to study very well those cases in history, because we must foresee what they will do. And we must anticipate this war, because this is a war, and we want to win it.
S. Yeah, I know that it is certainly not conventional, but nothing you have done has been conventional, so why should we expect any different. Here is another question. A lot of people of course are very curious about your catalysts, and we understand that you need to keep that proprietary. But here is a wording of a question regarding the catalyst. "You have said these catalysts are chemical elements in addition to hydrogen and nickel, that are placed into the reactor core of an E-Cat. Could you describe for a moment the importance of these catalysts?"
A. Yes. The importance is substantial because without them the E-Cat does not work. You know, many other technologies based on nickel and hydrogen tried to work, but they did not work. And this is why we have to cover them. Of course once we will have millions of pieces in the market it will not be very very difficult for a laboratory to understand which are these catalysts, but at that point, as I said before, we will be so well engineered with a production system that the reverse engineering will not be enough to compete with us. Because after that there will be the necessity to compete with us. And so, I hope we will take an advantage.
S. Also, while we are talking about the function of the technology, there is also been talk both from you and others about some kind of a frequency that is used to impose on the system, some kind of electromagnetic radio... some kind of vibrational frequency. Could you talk about that for a minute?
A. I am very sorry. I am very sorry, but this is a confidential issue. Yes, we use... I can say you this... That we use a system that is similar to what happens in the martial arts, oriental martial arts. Sorry, my pronunciation is a bit shaky. The effect is based on the fact the forces that theoretically should fight against us, and I mean the Coulomb forces, are used to help us. This is the principle. And this is the issue. This effect is an effect where we have turned to our advantage what theoretically has to be to our disadvantage. That is all I can tell you my friend.
S. Ok. That's good. Via email, a Wolf Fisher asked this question, "In the past year, in the tests that you have run, how often did the E-Cat work as you wanted it to, and can you perhaps tell us how good it is working now, because of the better controlling hardware and software from national Instruments.
A. Good question. Yes, we are working very well with NI, and we are learning a lot from them. And surely their technology is helping us in the stability issue, and this will be very useful, mainly in the path to arrive at the production of electricity. Because you could ask me why are you able to produce heat, and are you not yet able to make electricity. While it will be very easy turn heat into electricity, it is not a big issue to turn heat into electricity. Yes, theoretically the effect is that to make electricity with acceptable efficiency, you must have temperatures of at least 400 Celsius degrees. And which means kind of around 1,000 degrees. And this factor makes unstable the reactor. Now we have a very good stability now, and the E-Cat up to 120C degrees is very stable and works properly with no problems at all, without peaks. One year ago we had problems of peaks, that made unstable the reactor. Now, after one year we have reached a very good stability until 120C. So to make heat is not a problem. To go higher than that, because you know, theoretically should be easy to raise the temperature. Because you put in series instead of in parallel the E-Cats, and put them in series you should raise the temperature. Yes, this is true, but unfortunately when we arrived to high temperatures we had problems. And, but we are resolving these problems. And we are resolving this problem with the help of the customer that had bought the one megawatt plant. By the way, you have assisted to the test of that plant. Because I invited you. And with the help of National Instruments which is a wonderful, a wonderful supplier, because their philosophy is to teach to their customer to fish. They said to me in one of the first meetings I had with their managers and their scientists, they said we want to teach to your company to.. We want not just to sell to you a fish. But we want to, we... we want they said, you to learn to fish, because if you learn to fish, we can go fishing together. And upgrade together the technology. And this philosophy of theirs is a philosophy that will give very good results.
S. Regarding the E-Cat unit that you said you have submitted to underwriter laboratory, my understanding is that when you present something to underwriter laboratories or UL, it basically has to be the embodiment that is going to be used by the customer. So it is already fully engineered for production, and the UL stamp is the final stamp before it is handed to the customer. Is that unit the one you have developed previously, that for example I witnessed that you just mentioned on October 28th, in Bologna.
A. No. The unit that has to be certified is the unit exactly how it will be when we will put it in.. we have made prototypes of the unit which is much smaller, much lighter, etc. Because it is already engineered to be produced in big quantities. So it is already engineered, and it has been assembled along the directions that already the engineer of UL that is.. I am working with gave us.
S. And so, that you have such a unit handed to UL, is a strong indication of how far along you are toward production. Congratulations are to be offered.
A. Thank you. Thank you. I can assure you that the time we do not spend in conferences is spent in doing things. I am maybe rightly, I want to say many people complain that we never go to conferences. You know, and such kind of things etc etc. The problem is that I do not have the time, because to make all this it is necessary to work 15 or 16 hours a day. If you go around the world to make tests, conferences, etc, you cannot work. The problem is that we have a road map that is scheduled in very fast times, and we have absolutely not time to lose. And about NI, national instruments, what I want to say is also this... They are exactly, they are very fast. You know, they are very fast in everything, and this is a good thing.
S. I want to thank you for coming on our show. I know that you are very greedy for your time, and that you do not give many interviews or talk to the media very often.
A. I accepted this interview, because you are a very serious scientific journalist, and I appreciate you as a person. Yes it is true, I do not like to make interviews. But to make interviews with serious scientific journalists is delighting, as it is this evening.
S. Thank you. Now, lets talk about the home E-Cat unit, the 10 to 20 kilowatt size that you are going to be producing a million of this fall. There are a lot of questions about those. If you could maybe give us an idea of what it is going to look like, what it is going to do, where are we going to plug it in the home, is it going to replace the water heater, is it going to replace the home heater, is it going to supplement, will it later be able to have a plug you could add to add an electrical generator system to it with an upgrade.. Could you maybe paint a picture for us of what it is going to look like?
A. It will look like a small portable computer. It will have close the dimensions of a small portable computer, and it will be possible to apply heat to any existing heater. So you will just heat up.. You know the model for me has been the software of Microsoft. The software of Microsoft is a processor that you insert into any computer of the world. And the concept is the same. The E-Cat will be a processor able to make heat that you can.. in any kind of heater existing in the world in a very simple way, and every contractor or installer will be able to plug it in. And to refill it which is neccsary every six months, or every 180 days of operation, it will be very easy, because it will be like to refill a pen, and this will be the E-Cat.
S. And another question that comes up quite regularly is regarding the response time. In a home for example, someone opens up a bunch of doors, the temperature drops, you want to be able to turn the heat up. Will the E-Cat be able to respond in a fairly rapid time? The thermostat on the wall for example that governs a regular heater, you know expects to have a certain response time. Will the E-Cat be able to provide the heat to turn on, to turn off, in a period of time that the thermostat will be happy with?
A. Yes. For what concerns the heat the water of the heating system, to heat the rooms to heat factories, houses, etc. Yes. It will have the necessary elasticity. For water where you need, you know... The fact that the gas turns on when you open the valve of the water to wash your hands, and then you close the valve and the gas turns off. This elasticity of course is impossible, so the E-Cat will be plugged to resolve basically the ability to be connected fundamentally with heating circuit. While the existing heater will continue to be the one used for the symmetry.... It is correct in English, symmetry?
A. Symmetry. Exactly. For the symmetry, water, the existing heater will work. While we recover the heating water.
S. I am not sure if i have that word right. Gary, maybe someone from the audience can help figure out what he is getting at there. And while we are...
G. Some are suggesting sanitary.
A. You know, your heater gives you two kinds of water. The water to heat the radiators, to give the heat to give the right temperature to the rooms. Okay? Do you hear me?
A. And the water for example, to make a shower or to wash your hands?
S. Sanitary? Potable?
G. He is thinking grey water.
S. So yes, you are talking about two types of systems. One for the home heat, which is not going on the body or being ingested, and one for the hot water that comes out of the faucet for use potable or for showers.
A. Very good. The second one that you have said, which is a minimum part of the energy that is consumed in a household, needs an elasticity that we do not have. While the first one, which is the water of the heater to keep warm a house during the winter, that is exactly the operation where the E-Cat has the necessary elasticity. Am I able to explain myself?
S. Yes. You are saying, that for example if I take a long shower and I use all the water in the hot water heater, the E-Cat technology would not be a good fit to heat that water because of the response time, but it would be a good fit to heat the fluid that heats the home. Is that correct?
A. Perfect. This is exactly what I wanted to say. I am going to take lessons of English from you.
S. You do great. I want to go back to talk about earlier, what was discussed when this technology was first announced a year ago. My understanding was that one of the first good customer matches would be utilities, power plants, who were using natural gas or coal or other things to heat water to generate electricity. Your system could be used to pre-heat the water, their system would be used to top it off. So while the E-Cat cannot get up high enough to produce electricity, it can pre-heat the water. Is that still something that you have people acquiring about?
A. Yes. You are right.
S. Ok. Do you have any customers in line to do that specific application?
A. We are, yes. We have in line this.. The big problem along this path is the problem of the authorizations. Because power plants have a very complex set of authorizations, and everytime they change anything, they have to renew the authorizations. And you know that the authorization process for the power plant is a very complicated one. So, we have in line discussions with the power plant operators to do this, because this is one of the issues for which this technology is very, very fit. But this is not.. While it is not difficult to apply under a technological point of view, it is difficult to apply under a administrative or authoritative point of view.
S. Correct. The technology is there, but the bureaucracy will take a while.
S. You got to love it. Lets go back to the E-Cat and we have, if I understand right, every six months or so a, for lack of a better term, a refueling where you need to replace the nickel cartrige and the hydrogen canister. Is that, for example, if somebody was away and they used very little heat, would their system last for a year or two years, or could you maybe address the whole re-fueling paradigm for a minute?
A. Of course. What counts is not... when I say that a charge lasts one hundred and eighty days, I mean one hundred and eighty operational days. So if you use it in.... if you use it for one month of the year, one charge will last six years, not six months. The charge is consumed only if you need the operation. If you do not need the operation you turn the E-Cat off, and after thirty minutes or one hour maximum, the E-Cat is turned off and consumes nothing.
S. And that is why, there would be some kind of indicator on the E-Cat that would tell the user when they need to get the system re-charged, correct?
S. And is that something that they would purchase through you, or something that they could maybe, and then they would send back for example their old nickel cartridge to be re-used or re-charged....
A. Exactly. Our system point which will be closed to the customer and later I will explain you why, will supply to the customer the re-fills, and the customer can change the re-fills himself, or if he wants the installer or the plumber can go to make the change. It is a very easy operation. And the old cartridge will be sent back to us, because we recycle it. And we have just to re-treat the nickel. And then the cartridge, the old cartridge becomes new and is ready to be put again into operation. And so there will be a circulation of cartridges, because you have an E-Cat when the cartridge is consumed you give it back to our agency, and change it and put on the new one, and the old one goes in our factory to be re-treated. And of course completely recycled. And that's it... The reason why I stated before that the assistance point would be close tot he customer is very simple, because the fact that an E-Cat can be attached to any kind of heater you already have makes possible to us to tell you to go to your installer, to your traditional installer or plumber, and put him in contact with us. And we will give him instructions to assist you.
S. What would be the re-fill cost?
A. The re-fill cost, if you change the re-fill yourself, it is basically nothing. Just the cost of the cartridge. A cartridge can cost ten dollars, and to change it yourself, it's over. You have to spend nothing more. If not, you have to pay the installer, the trip that, the return trip he has to make to come to your house and change it.
S. The cartridge might be ten dollars, the shipping might be forty.
A. No, because we will.. Your assistant.. maybe... Maybe you are right.
S. Once more people have these then you can get the cartridge locally and you don't have to order from Florida, or from Italy, but you can order it from a local vendor. Or pick it up at Walmart.
A. Or from Massachusetts. Because It is possible... in the next week I will be in Massachusetts in Boston, because it is possible we will put a manufacturing unit in Massachusetts.
S. Also, could you purchase additional cartridges and have them stored so you don't to order one every time you run out?
A. Yes, of course.
S. What about the hydrogen cartage?
A. The cartage has to be sent back to us. But we will find a solution to this. To sort out the logistics.
G. On a side note Zero Fossil Fuel a regular in the chat room is offering to buy Mr. Rossi dinner while he is in Boston. So if there is a way we could arrange that and Mr. Rossi's game and would like to have a free dinner on Zero Fossil Fuel, I think we can make the arrangements.
S. Alright. Also, we were talking about the logistics of re-fill. What about the hydrogen canister?
A. Here we have a big surprise. This is a big surprise. It is very likely that the E-Cats we are working with now, work without canisters of hydrogen, because we have resolved the problem with a substance that inside the reactor stores and recycles the hydrogen. Consuming it, but you know we consume a picogram of hydrogen, and so a charge of ten grams lasts six months of operation. So basically, we have resolved the problem of the canister. The problem of the canister was very big for the domestic E-Cats. Because to get a safety certifications for an apparatus that has a tank of hydrogen, was very difficult. And so we have resolved the problem. This is a tremendous improvement of our technology that we made in these last times.
S. So if I understand what you just said, there is no hydrogen canister required?
S. You just opened up a whole bunch of questions with that. Because previous won't you using the pressure of hydrogen to govern or control the rate of reaction?
A. Yes, we have resolved that problem using temperatures.
G. Gentleman I should butt in here momentarily and just mention we are at the one hour point. I am certainly prepared to go longer if Sterling and Mr. Rossi or so inclined. But I do want to ask, but please we do reserve some time before we cut this show off to take on some of the great questions that have been coming through the chatroom.
S. I have been keeping an eye on the questions as you have been posting them in Skype, and trying to integrate some of them as we have been going along too. Ok, on the, here's a question from Thomas Z. through email, concerning using the E-Cat in the home environment.... I'm sorry, we have already addressed that one.
Is the life of the fuel charge determined by the operating time or the total output power, for example, if operated at 50% would the fuel charge last twice as long. You addressed that one too.
A. I have understood, but this is the question you have already put me before. The charge is consumed only during the operational work of the E-Cat. So if you work hard one day and stop and do not make the E-Cat work for five days, of course the charge consumes only during that day, not the other five. So when we say that a charge lasts one hundred and eighty days. This does not mean one hundred and eighty calendar days. It means one hundred and eighty operational days.
S. Right. Ok. On the... going back to the price of $50 dollars per kilowatt, or $500 dollars for ten kilowatts. In addition to using robotics for mass production, what other devices or mechanisms are you employing to bring the price so low?
A. It is basically automation. Automation. Basically, it is that. Basically, it is.. we are engineering a factory where we can automatize everything at the maximum level. To cut the times, to cut the costs of assembling, and that's it.
S. How do you plan on distributing these systems?
A. We are organizing the network. With licenses and with agencies. We will end, we will also sell the E-Cats in the internet. And again, to organize the assistance network, we will ask to the customers to put us in contact with their usual trusted contractor or plumber or installer... So that we will have the experience there. He will have the usual assistance, and we will extend this way in an assistance network close to where have real customers.
S. Ok. And back to the home E-Cat unit... On the one megawatt size you had it run in self-looped mode where the output was powering the input, with energy left over. Do you anticipate having the home units run in self-looped mode, ever?
A. Yes, sure. Automatically, the E-Cat will go into self-sustain mode when control system will decide. The 10 kilowatt E-Cat will work exactly as the one megawatt E-Cat under htis point of view. This will be a completely automatically done. It is not something like in an electric car. Like in today's electric car, is the control system that decides when it goes by gas or goes by the battery. The driver has just to drive. The E-Cat will go into self-sustain mode or in drive mode, automatically. This will not be a choice of the owner.
S. Ok. And so my pole, a lot of energy starting up, but once it has been running for a while it will go into self looped mode. And the input energy will be just for some of these supplementary systems such as fans or other things.
S. In regards to the signs of the reaction that is going on, where you are trans mutating nickel and hydrogen into copper, one of the comments I have seen many times including just now is the emission of gamma radiation that is expected in such a circumstance. You have detected some gamma radiation, but apparently you are supposed to see high energy gamma radiation. Could you maybe comment on that?
A. Yes. The transmutation of nickel to copper is a side effect of the working of the E-Cat. The main effect that happens inside is an effect that needs low energy gamma rays. The transmutation to copper is a side effect. Yes, we have got evidence of 511, 180 degree couples... I mean 511 kevs gammas, at 180 degrees. We got them which come from the reaction between the matter of the electrons and the anti-matter of the positrons. But this is just a side effect, but you know... To explain exactly the theory of what happens inside, until we decide to disclose the technology, it is basically not possible. But again, yes we got evidence, we got evidence and we will publish the documents about this of the 511 kevs, but I am afraid that this language is a bit too difficult for the audience that we have tonight.
S. Lets go and talk about the one megawatt system for a second. The one megawatt plant that I saw in Bologna that was purchased, can you give us an update of its present status. Is it in operation? Is it still in R and D? Are modifications being made? Where is it at?
A. It is in modification, because we are preparing with National Instruments the new control system. And we had to make modifications to the system of gaskets, because you know that also in the report of the test, has been written that we had problem of leakages of the gaskets. And so we had to substitute, because the test has been judged positive by the customer. But with the reserve of the fact we had to change all the gasket system. But in the meantime we also have matured a new control philosophy with national instruments that is in execution right now. And we foresee that it will go in operation within a month, or a maximum of two. In the field of the customer.
S. And also you are going to build twelve additional units for that same customer?
S. Are those underway?
S. And I pieced together the information from three things, where at one point you said the first customer was US. In another post you said that the first customer was military, and then in another interview you did with the guys who did that, "I believe in the E-Cat" song, you said that the first customer was the same as the second customer. From that I concluded that the first customer is the US military. Would you mind commenting on that?
A. No. I cannot comment at all, because maybe that I gave this information about this because the issue is that the customer is a kind of customer that absolutely wants not to be disclosed. I am bound to an NDA, and I cannot absolutely add anything to this.
S. Ok. One more question about the one megawatt. Have there been anymore sold beside the first thirteen?
A. I am sorry. I did not hear very well. Can you kindly repeat?
S. In addition to those first thirteen one megawatt units, have there been any other sells of the one megawatt size?
A. Yes. We have sold another one and we have many, many in discussion.
S. Ok. Moving on. We want to talk about some challenges. We talked about certification and National Instruments. Ok, a while back you mentioned that with the help of the customer, you had been able to produce a steady output steam of 400 degrees C. And obtaining such high temperature steam helps make the process of electrical production more efficient. Have you made any additional progress on this front?
A. Yes. We are learning a lot from the customer under this point of view. Because the same guy that you have seen of them which was a Colonel-Engineer has a very big experience in power plants and thermal dynamics. And we are learning very much. So, I think electricity from our E-Cats will come sooner than expected. Yes.
S. Thank you. Back to the home E-Cat size, could you give us an idea of how much energy is pulled when the unit is in start up mode, turning... lets say you turn the thermistat on. You have been away, and you turn on the thermostat. The house needs to heat up. What would be the amount of energy in kilowatts the device would pull when it is first starting.
A. Yes. You consider that every 10 kilowatts of power draw about 2 point, during the start-up, the activation period, we draw about 2.7 or 2.9 kilowatts of power. Basically during the activation, you consume 2.7 to 2.9 kilowatt hours per hour. And this goes on for up to, depends on... in a small E-Cat it takes one hour. In a one megawatt plant it takes a couple of hours, because there we have more complex problems. But in any case, yes, the activation energy is 2.7 kilowatt hours per hour, every 10 kilowatts of power of the plant.
S. Also, the one megawatt size was made of about 100 modules with three reactors in each. Where the home unit would only have one module or one reactor unit per system?
S. Ok. Moving to a different area, what is the status of the US patent application.
A. The patent is still pending. We have our patent has been granted in Italy. So the process of authorization and study of the patent has been two years long in Italy. Then we had the patent granted. While the international and the US are still pending.
S. Any prognosis of when those might be granted, if so?
A. It is absolutely impossible because this is an issue that absolutely does not depend on us. Our patent attorney's are working on it. I cannot say anymore, because this is an issue that does not depend on us. That is it.
S. This next question from Lou P. is one that we see a lot. But this is worded in a way that I have not seen before. He is proposing the following. Why not sell the E-Cat secret to the public directly, I mean come up with a dollar amount, and once the dollar amount has been reached you then give E-Cat to the world, like Salk did with the polio vacine.
A. You know, I receive many proposals to give the technology to the world. I think that this could be not the best way to put the technology into the service of mankind. Because, if you take all the incentive to the investors, the novelty will accept to invest in this technology. And without investments... I do not think that this will be developed. If we want to make something useful that grows beyond the fact of the production and distribution of the E-Cat, we can do it. And we will do it. As I already said, a consistent path of our path will serve to make, to build an organization to help the healthcare of children where they are not able to provide to it. We are organizing this in a very efficient way, and but I think that to give away the technology is the worst way to make this technology be developed and reinforced.
S. I should comment that really the open source question is moot, because after a certain period of time, once the period of time is available, and you have acknowledge this, reverse engineering will take place. And your strategy it to make the device so cheap through advanced engineering and production technology that you will have an advantage in the market place you can maintain to be able to recoup the investment that has been made. And so once the reverse engineering takes place, another word for that will be open source. It will get out there, and others will begin working on it. And you are fully aware of that, and your solution to that is to provide a product that is so cheap and well engineered, that they cannot compete. Because you have the advantage of time.
A. You are absolutely correct.
S. So to answer the question, it will be open sourced, but not from Andrea Rossi.
A. Exactly. It will be an open source from us anyway, because reverse engineering comes from us. But we need to have the time to setup an organization to defend the development of this technology along an industrial strategy. Which you know, open source... Don't think that open source means that it will be easy to make it very well, and with world wide distribution. Think to make a corporation between what made Microsoft, and what made the open source competitors of Microsoft. And you can understand very well the difference that is between a strong company that whose investors cure and nurture a powerful industrial organization. And you know brownian motion of initiatives were are in, nobody puts real money, because there is not a proper revenue policy.
S. Jumping to another subject, the testing at the University of Bologna and Uppsala University, that was going to take two years, is that under way, or what is the status of that?
A. It is, we are working on it. We are working on it. And it is very close to be started. In this period, we had a tremendous amount of work to do. And for all we have done. And I needed time for that activity. And in any case, in February, we will start the work.
S. Along the lines of academic and science behind this, certainly you are aware of Black Light Power and their approach. Do you have a position on Dr. Mills use of Maxwellian mathematics to explain the effect?
A. I never absolutely. I never ever comment on my competitors.
S. Can you tell us about any other upcoming tests that are planned that we could know about?
A. No, not... at this moment we are working on the industrialization. We have to prepare for the production of a million pieces. That is the work we are doing. Of course the tests of the E-Cats and also the work with Uppsala and Bologna we will go ahead, but no more public tests. At this point, we are going to mass production of the E-Cats. And this is the job that we need to do. And, no sorry to have interrupted you. I just wanted to add that once the E-Cats will be for sale. I mean the small E-Cats, everybody will be able to buy one and make all the tests he will want.
S. Yeah. That will satisfy a lot of people. Speaking of the E-Cat sales, you are talking about one million units. It is not clear in my mind if you start production in the fall or if the units are available in the fall.
A. We will start production in the fall. In the fall we will have ready all the engineering to start the production. And the sales will start in the winter. The production will be one million pieces per year. But from now to the fall, the work will be to prepare the factories.
S. Ok. And the sales started in the winter, and one million is that the rate of which units produced per year?
S. Ok. And what do you expect that to change to in say three or five years?
A. This is difficult to say because it will depend on the market. It is very difficult to answer. It is very difficult. It depends on the market.
S. Totally different question. I get inquiries from time to time about investment. I know there are people out there interested in investing in your company. What ranges of dollar amounts will you consider for investment? Anything above "X" dollars, for example.
A. You know the issue is of a philosophic kind, because we are not yet... Our company before we will have millions of E-Cat units in operation, our company will be a sort of a warship. And as I usually say, I want not to play football with the bones of the others. So we cannot, we want not to accept money from people that have saved money working, and they want to invest their money to give, how can I say, safety to their family. We want not that. We do not want the savings of families in our enterprise now. Our enterprise is still risky, for many reasons. So we can accept investments from big organizations, that can invest a small amount... Some hedge funds of their finances, and can risk it, in a way that if something goes wrong, no body is going to cry. And no body is going to be damaged, really. Do you understand?
S. Sure. I appreciate that.
A. It is too soon. It is too soon. It is too early now for people to invest in this operation, in our business. Our business is not enough consolidated to put the savings of families in this operation. And when we will be well consolidated, at that point we will go public.
S. Ok. A lot of questions along this line...
A. Just one thing, I am very tired.
S. I am close to the end of my questions.
G. I was about to mention that we are at an hour and a half. We must have just about drained all of Mr. Rossi's batteries.
A. I am very tired. Because today, even if it is Saturday, but I worked about 16 hours, and now I risk to fall asleep one moment or the other.
S. We have asked a lot of questions. This one question comes up a lot, and I think it is.. You have thousands of supporters who want to assist you in anyway they can. Could you maybe people an idea of some things they could do to help now, or maybe in the future? Give us a few bullet points of ways that people can help move this technology forward, and get involved, and when they could get involved.
A. Well, we are walking deeply and profoundly to make the E-Cats at a very, very low price to allow people to pay back the E-Cat in a few months. The best help is to consider that getting an E-Cat, they save money for thirty years which is the expected life of an E-Cat. To pre-order an E-Cat is the thing that gives us a good way, is not risky, because it cost nothing. And when the E-Cats will be ready to be for sale, we will send to everybody who makes a pre-order a specific offer. And everybody will be free to cancel their order, or confirm it. And this is a good way to help us. And, do not send money, but just say, well, when the E-Cat will be out I will be ready to buy it. The price anyway will be between $400 and $500 dollars for a ten kilowatt system. This is a win-win proposal. And stay in touch with us, for now we have just to work.
S. Are you still taking inquiries for licensing?
A. Yes. I am taking inquiries for licensing and....
G: And someone who is interested should they address you through your website? Is there some kind of a form they can fill out there?
A. Yes, exactly. Just it is enough to send an email and anything. They can also send an email to Sterling Allan, to his website. Or to email@example.com or yes to ecat.com.
S. My email address is firstname.lastname@example.org
G: Gentleman, I am going to have to cut in here. We have taken an awful lot of Mr. Rossi's time and before cut him loose, I would like him to have an opportunity to address his live audience. Mr. Rossi, right now, we have two hundred and fifty people viewing this broadcast live on justin.tv. There are about fifty eight in the chat room who have been actively engaging in chat. The questions have been coming in fast and furious. Most of the questions, most of the comments have been extremely positive. Unfortunately, a few of them are a bit disappointed because we were not able to address all of their issues. I would like to give you the floor, and give you the opportunity to speak to your audience. These are your fans.
A. I really love you all, because you gave me the courage to go ahead. And that is all I have to say. I thank you very much. I feel your sustain and it is extremely important. Thank you very much for your attention.
S. In response I want to commend you for your courage and tenacity to do what few people, if any, have dared do. You are not afraid of what is quote and quote "impossible" or has never been done before. Or is seen as quote "ridiculous" by others. You are very unorthodox, and even though it may be difficult for people to understand you and to work with that kind of an operation, you are tireless. And you are courageous, and we salute you.
A. Thank you. Thank you very much.
G: Gentleman, I think at this point we should cut the connection and let Rossi get some rest. Are we all in agreement?
S. I am good.
G. From my side of the conversation, thank you very much for appearing on the Smart Scare Crow show. We wish you all the luck in the world. We look forward to seeing this thing on an endcap with a sale price on it at Home Depot and Walmart in the next year. Please get it there.
A. Thank you very much. We will and again thank you and good evening to everybody.
G. I have broken the connection with Mr. Rossi. To the folks in the audience, please have some understanding, the questions came in so darn fast. Sterling, did you see how fast I was posting questions on your Skype. I think we got most of them.
S. I think we addressed almost everything you had. I didn't see anything we didn't cover. I take that back, there were a few technical questions.
G. I know there were some we missed, and to the audience we did the best we could guys. Some of the questions were very, very difficult for him to answer. It took him a little time. I wish I could guarantee everyone of these Smart Scare Crow show broadcasts would be absolutely perfect and meet all your expectations, but damn it we did the best we could. I think we did pretty well.
S. Well, I personally got a lot of information, some clarification through this interview that was not clear in my mind. So I thought it was very worthwhile and I am grateful for you allowing us to use your Smart Scare Crow venue as the hosting platform for the interview.
G. All things considered, I think if we had not chose a Saturday when we were in competition with all the kids broadcasting their X-Box games, I think it would have gone a little smoother. I was fighting with bandwidth on Justin TV the whole show. I had to use JPEGs instead of live video for most of the broadcast. Like everything else in the world, we do the best we can.
S. Of course in this case the audio was the most important thing.
G. Yes. No question about it. Sterling, before I cut you loose and let you have the rest of Saturday to yourself. I would like to invite you to say your peace, and we will shut this show down.
S. There is a lot of skepticism about Andrea Rossi's technology and his approach, and that is why my final comment. You know I was saying that to him, I almost started to cry. I really have a lot of respect for him. Even though he is not perfect and he is not doing this the way a normal scientist would, that is why we have not seen this technology, because normal scientists are too cowardly. He is not. And we need courageous people like him who don't care about all the people that say that is impossible, or you should not do it that way. We don't do things around here like that. He just does it, and I think he is an amazing person. And there is no way he is a fraudster. Absolutely not. Maybe sloppy in some regards, but boy he gets stuff done. You know, a year ago when he made his press conference he said in October he was going to demonstrate a one megawatt power plant. And by golly he did it. How many other free energy inventors do you know of that have met their deadlines. I cannot think of a single one. Even though it was not a full megawatt, and it turned out being a little less than half a megawatt.....
G. Whatever it was, it was good enough the customer wrote him a check. So you know I mean, my point of view on all of this is that a customer that is willing to write a big check and take delivery on a gizmo like that, it is pretty hard to call it a fraud, if someone has their experts on site sniffing it saying, "yeah yeah, ok this is cool, lets buy it." A guy willing to pay money is a pretty good endorsement as far as I am concerned. Of course I am a country boy, small things impress me.
S. Well thanks again for letting us do this show. I need to run. My wife just texted me saying it is time to go do dinner. We have an appointment.