Features:
•
Keshe: Drone Interception Video Demonstrates Magravs System Capability
• Bedini SG "Authorized" Beginner's Handbook Posted -- Not First
• Water as Fuel -- November 2012 Update
• Mercedes' Ener-G-Force to Run on Water via Hydro-Tech Converter
• Will Exotic Free Energy Not Arrive Until a Sufficient Awakening Happens?
• Jesse Ventura's Conspiracy Theory Show Addresses Time Travel



 "Free Energy" 

News XML
- PESN Specials
- About
- Daily FE News
- Features
- Free Energy Now
- This Week in FE
- Newsletter
- How you can help
- Submit

 

Directory
Energy Topics

• Alt Fuels
• Anti-Gravity
• Batteries
• Betavoltaic
• Biofuels
 - BioDiesel
 - BioElectricity
 - Biomass
• Body Electric
• Brown's Gas
• Cold Fusion
• Conservation
• Electrolysis
• Electromagnetic OU
• Fuel Cells
• Fuel Efficiency
 - Electric Vehicles
 - Engines
 - Hydroxy
• Fusion
• Geothermal
• Gravity Motors
• Human Powered
• Hydro
• Hydrogen
• Joe Cells
• Lighting
• Magnet Motors
• Nanotechnology
• Nuclear
• Nucl. Remediation
• Oil
• Piezoelectric
• Plasma
• River
• Salt Water Mix
• Solar
• Solid State Gen.
• Tesla Turbines
• Thermal Electric
• Tidal
• Vortex
• Waste to Energy
• Water
 - Water as Fuel
• Wave
• Wind
• Wireless Electricity
• Zero Point Energy
• MORE . . .

Open Source
• Freddy's Cell
• Bedini SG
• Safe Haven Villages
• MORE . . .

Resources
• Awards
• Conservation
• Conspiracy
• Directories
• Investment
• Kudos
• Legal
• Organizations
• Plastic and Energy
• Recycling
• Suppression
• Tools
• Trends
• MORE . . .

Mingling
• OverUnity Forum
• Employment
• Events
• Humor
• Magazines
• Movies
• Newsletters
• Discuss. Groups

Shopping
• Store
• Buyer Beware
- - - - - - - - - -
- Donate
- Contact

 

 

 


http://pesn.com/2010/09/27/9501707_HHOi_under_pressure_into_fuel_rail_running_vehicles_on_water_and_air/
You are here:
PureEnergySystems.com > News > Sept. 27, 2010

HHOi under pressure into fuel rail may be the key to running vehicles on water and air

Rick, a researcher in Utah, apparently got his vehicle to idle using this set-up, with his fuel pump disabled, similar to Freddy, who claims to have gotten a pickup truck to drive on this arrangement.  This may be the first replication of the effect, and hopefully will spur a host of replications.

WARNING:
Extreme caution should be used in experimenting with these systems that involve combustible gases that can be made more so under pressure.


Above is shown the Hydrogen Solutions Center cell that Rick is using.  Below is the bubbler.

 

CORRECTION:

On Sept. 27, ~3:20 pm, Rick told me that it turns out that the relay from the fuel pump was not disconnected during the 2.5-hour run.   His staff were running the experiment at the time, in his absence, and it turned out that they had not done it properly, as he had demonstrated for them previously.  So a key claim in the story below turns out to not have happened.  

In Rick's defense, he wanted me to hold off on publishing this story until he had it going again so I could see it first.  I was the one who let my exuberance get away and rushed to publish before having that validation.  I'm torn because so much good dialogue took place as a result of preparing this story, which is included below.

Rick thinks he might get his Jeep running on HHOi this week.  "I'm just about there," he said.

Again, don't take this out on him; it's my fault for jumping the gun.

I should add, too, that in addition to the 2.5-hour claim, which turned out to be bogus, he himself saw the engine run for a few seconds on HHOi before going into vapor lock.

by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News


The free energy community has been abuzz in the last month with Freddy Wells' claim to have gotten a Dodge 2004 pickup truck to run on water. They have also been appreciative that Freddy is willing to share his plans for how he accomplished this. The problem has been that there are a lot of versions involved in the device that Freddy showed in his now famous video, and getting a clear conveyance as to how he did what he did has turned out to be a bit challenging. We have a few people still working closely with Freddy and making progress toward getting the plans worked up.


Idling a Jeep with just HHOi

Meanwhile, a researcher in Utah who goes by "Rick", appears to have gotten close, running his 2000 Jeep Wrangler at idle, revving it up to 3000 rpms without a load, with the gasoline shut off, using a similar set-up as Freddy's, though using an entirely different hydroxy cell type. The onboard electrolysis unit, powered by the vehicle's battery/alternator, produces an ionized hydroxy gas [HHOi] (the hydrogen and oxygen are not separated) that is injected under pressure (30 – 60 psi) into the fuel rail, and is able to keep the engine running.  That part is essentially identical to what Freddy did. 

The longest Rick has kept his Jeep going like this so far has been around 2.5 hours before it died.  During that time, Rick was able to rev the engine via the accelerator pedal up and down, including to 3,000 rpms. It didn't ever backfire. Somehow the car's computer is able to compensate for the different fuel, and increase and decrease the speed the engine runs in response to the changing pedal position, just as it would if gasoline were running the vehicle. Perhaps the variation in airflow with the varying throttle positions with the pedal changes is what regulates the engine speed in this case.  Also, the Jeep computer's knock sensor automatically adjusts the timing of the engine to handle the HHOi gas.  Rick was amazed to watch his gauge show the timing change on his Jeep.

The odd thing is that the rate of hydroxy gas production was constant, and was not governed to correspond to the increase or decrease in engine load. Nor is the rate of water consumption at a rate that present physics would predict would be needed for the water to be serving as fuel. Nor is the rate of electrical consumption in producing the hydroxy gas proportional to the amount of power manifest in idling the vehicle for that long.  One of the pioneer researchers in the field, George Wiseman, points out that to be practical, the Brown's gas (HHO or hydroxy) production will need to be nominally in proportion to the load requirement.

These attributes are similar to what Freddy reported, except he allegedly was running his friend's pickup truck under load – driving down the road, speeding up and slowing down. Rick hopes to get to that point some time this week, with the help of an associate who is flying in to help out. If they get it running well, Rick would like to drive down to where I live and show it off to me.

I was going to drive up yesterday (Sept. 26), and see it and videotape it as part of this report, but Rick has it dismantled presently, awaiting a better pressure regulator device, which is expected to arrive today.

Fuel Line Considerations:

On Sept. 26, ~9:00 pm, Moray King told me that Rick found out that he had a gas line active that he overlooked, so the conclusion that he was idling his car on HHOi alone apparently was incorrect.  

On Sept. 26, 10:47 pm, Freddy wrote: "It looks to me like the of the fuel line you're referring to is the return line from the fuel pressure regulator. It bleeds off excess pressure and returns it to the gas tank. The regulator also acts like a check valve and will not allow anything from the gas tank to the injection rail but only allows fuel from the rail to flow into the gas tank. If anything it will allow HHOi to bleed back to the fuel tank, once the injection rail reaches the preset pressure of the regulator."

On Sept. 27, ~8:30 am, I phoned Rick to get clarification on this.  He said that the fuel line required a special tool to disconnect, which he didn't have, so he had pulled out the relay from the fuel pump, disabling it.  Being conservative to believe he has achieved something phenomenal, he speculated that the effect he saw could have been due to fuel remaining in the line.  Hence his downplaying statement to King.

I seriously doubt it.  That wouldn't account for the engine running for 2.5 hours.  

He said he followed a procedure similar to what was shown in Freddy's video.  He disconnected the fuel pump relay, tried to start the car, but it wouldn't run.  Then he connected the HHOi set-up, and the engine ran at idle (with some periodic revving via the accelerator) for 2.5 hours.


Characteristics of HHOi

Another similarity is that the hydroxy gas that both Freddy and Rick are allegedly producing is being called "HHOi", the "i" symbolizing "ionized." This is a term that James Sharp coined, and which Freddy has picked up and which Freddy's Cell forum has run with.  Wiseman has been calling it "Electrically Expanded Water" (EEW) for years.

The HHOi gas is different from regular hydroxy (HHO) gas in that it is substantially heavier than air.  This is easy to demonstrate by ducting it into an open container. Regular HHO gas rises out and mixes with the surrounding air.  But HHOi will stay put for quite a while – many seconds or even minutes. You can walk away, then come back later and light the gas and it will give its characteristic "pop" as it implodes. (This needs to be quantitatively characterized.)   Wiseman points out that the commonly ducted product from the electrolysis which is called "Brown's gas" contains H2, O2 and HHOi gasses.  The ratio depends on the production method.  From what I can gather, the HHOi is the objective.  And the less H2 and O2 you have, the better.

Rick also did an experiment in which he placed his HHOi gas in a paper bag with the top closed overnight, then opened the bag in the morning and ignited the gas. That clearly shows that hydrogen gas is not the primary operator in the ignition.  Any hydrogen gas would have quickly escaped from the bag.  The hydrogen molecule is the smallest molecule, being comprised of just two H atoms, the smallest atom; so hydrogen gas escapes even through most metal or plastic containers.  Getting a vessel to contain hydrogen gas is very expensive.  So clearly, holding hydrogen in a paper sack would be like trying to contain a gallon of water in a t-shirt.  Again, this phenomenon needs the scientific community to characterize and quantify it.

Another experiment he did just two days ago was to fill a balloon with the HHOi gas to about 6 inches.  He did this by just connecting the output, pressurized hose from his unit into a balloon.  He measured it with a caliper.  In the morning, the balloon was the exact same size.  It had not gone down at all.  I suggested that he repeat the experiment, this time in duplicate, and have two balloons blown up just by air, and two with the HHOi gas.  We all know that normally balloons deflate as the air escapes from them.  I would predict that the HHOi gas (and regular HHO gas, for that matter) would stay in the balloon longer, being a much larger molecule than what is normally in air.  This seems like a very simple proof that HHO gas exists from these hydroxy systems, that it is not just hydrogen and oxygen gas as you would typically expect from electrolysis.  

I talked to Rick again this morning, and he said all balloons were the same size still this morning.  But then he did an experiment while we were on the phone.  He dropped the balloons, and the HHOi balloon dropped about twice as fast as the one filled with air.  In contrast, he said that previously, when he was using KOH as the electrolyte with his cell and filled a balloon with the gas it produced, that the balloon floated, because of all the H2 gas in it, which is lighter than air.  It just may be that we can use balloons to give a very quick indicator as to the composition of the Brown's gas being generated by an electrolyzer.  You want the balloon to drop faster than one filled with air, and certainly not to float or rise.  This means your gas ratio is high on HHOi and low on H2 and O2.

There is such a thing as a gaseous form of water (HHO) at ambient room temperature.  "HHO" is what the industry has been calling it.  That is probably not a chemically accurate name for the molecule species.


Key Ingredients to Running Engine on Water and Air

So in summary, at this point it appears that he following may be the key ingredients to this set-up:
- HHOi gas
- Pressurized with air (~ 60 psi)
- Injecting directly to the fuel rail

Heretofore, most hydroxy researchers have been injecting the hydroxy gas into the air intake, where it appears to help the fuel burn more efficiently. But in Freddy and Rick's scenario, no petrol is being used, and the HHOi gas is being injected directly into the fuel rail, under pressure. This is a very different approach, and apparently is a major step forward in the industry.

Apparently, one of the attributes of HHOi is that it can be pressurized, unlike regular HHO, which explodes (actually implodes) when pressurized above around 12 {??} psi.  A researcher in California was killed recently and a portion of his industrial lab roof was blown off when his hydroxy gas tank combusted. (Ref)  Gary Hendershot, aka SmartScarecrow, who has served like an orchestra conductor in the industry, says that Brown's Gas actually becomes more stable when pressurized because the increased conductivity tends to short out the ignition source.  I'm guessing that this is true of HHOi due to its electrical nature, but not of the H2 O2 gas, which would be predisposed to ignition through pressurization. So the more the "Brown's Gas" is composed of HHOi and the less H2 and O2 gas, the safer it is when it comes to compression.

The differences between Freddy and Rick's cells are significant to note as well, inasmuch as they rule out the cell design as being a key factor. The end result – HHOi – is the objective, and there may be several ways to achieve that.

Rick's cell is a "dry cell" using plates, while Freddy's cell was a wet cell using tubes and resonance. For an electrolyte, Rick uses potassium carbonate (KCO3, used in soap-making); while Freddy used potassium hydroxide.  Hendershot points out that KCO3 is not a catalyst but is consumed in the reaction and has to be replenished.

One of the issues Rick is facing is that he is getting a red crud building up in the top of his cell. He cleans it out but keeps getting more. He's using 316L stainless steel for his plates.

Another issue he's faced is that sometimes he gets vapor lock after just 3 seconds of running. He thinks he knows why that is and has been able to prevent that.

To pressurize his HHOi gas, Rick uses two pressure regulators. One is positioned between his cells and the bubbler (which prevents backflash), and that one brings the pressure to 30 psi. The second pressure regulator is located between the bubbler and the fuel rail, and that one brings the pressure to 60 psi.


Concerned Neighbors

Rick told me a story that is quite humorous.  He's been working on this technology since 2006.  His neighbors have been concerned from the loud bangs they are hearing, and actually called the police.  When the police arrived, Rick explained what it was he was doing, and they said, "Keep on doing what you are doing.  We need this."  They bemoaned how much they are spending on fuel for their fleet: $300,000 per year.  "If we didn't have to pay so much for fuel, we could hire back some of the officers we've had to let go."

He told this to me in the context of talking about igniting the balloon this morning.  He said it singed the hair on his arm, but that the heat seemed to come only from the lighter flame being blown back with the combustion.  Hydroxy gas does not react with organic substrates such as skin or fruit or water.  You can sit a brown's gas torch permanently on water, and the water will not boil.  But at the same setting, that torch will sublimate tungsten within a few seconds.

So if Rick were a robot made of metal, and had lit the balloon, and all that Brown's gas reacted with him, the story might have been very different.  If you can substitute petrol for this gas, lighting a balloon full would seem like sheer folly; but Rick can attest that all he has to show for it is some singed hair on his arm.


Ionized Air as Fuel Contributor

On Saturday morning, Rick called me up to report that he tried running just straight air with an air compressor into the fuel rail on his Jeep, and that it actually idled for 2-3 minutes that way.  He was wondering if whatever leftover fuel that is in the system might be enough to enable it to run that long.

Because of some other situations I know of, I postulated that it may be that the pressurized air itself could be contributing to the fuel component -- with petrol in this case, and with HHOi in the above set-up.

I know of another researcher who claims that several years ago he was able to get his car to run on air alone after getting above 15 mph -- that the pressure of the incoming air was enough, and there was enough energy in the air from solar power ionizing molecules in the air, and his engine had enough of a combustion efficiency to actually utilize the air as fuel under that low pressure and flow.  He temporarily abandoned this effect to first pursue something not so disruptive and difficult for people to believe.

This week I got a phone call from another researcher, this one saying that he got his Papp engine running, and that the fuel source is . . . air.  He doesn't want coverage yet, but we are in process of checking out his claim, as he invited us to come see it.  The reason I feel compelled to mention it here is that the Papp engine process may be similar to the effect we're discussing here. 


Where is the Energy Coming From?

Chris Eckman has published a peer-reviewed paper suggesting that what is happening with Brown's gas (another word for HHO / hydroxy gas) is that the electrolysis is causing the water molecule to go from being di-pole, in a V shape, to being linear and charged; and that it is the charged or ionic attribute that has so much energy when it interacts with the substrate (whatever it's hitting).  In the linear configuration, the molecule is no longer a di-pole, and thus becomes a gas, rather than a liquid; and it implodes when combusted.

Moray B. King hypothesizes that zero point energy is being harnessed in the process of creating Brown's gas, and that is where the extra energy comes from.  Hence the typical math regarding electrolysis becomes irrelevant.  The amount of energy required to electrolyze the water is much less than the amount of energy being manifest in its combustion. King has spoken extensively at various symposia about the scientific model of how this takes place

I also talked to Bob Boyce about these developments, and he saw this model as being feasible -- that the key elements here are that HHOi being injected directly into the fuel rail under pressure could enable a much more efficient usage of the HHOi.  King says that Boyce has run engines at idle in a self-looping arrangement similar to what Freddy and Rick are reporting, but not into the fuel rail under pressure.


Plasma as a Possible Player

In the discussions about this effect, I'm also hearing people speculate that the HHOi and air under pressure create a plasma that is responsible for the energy being manifest.  Might it be that the HHOi and ionic components of air under pressure are both contributing to the formation of a plasma that has the combustive equivalent of gasoline or diesel?

Some are wondering if there might not even be a nuclear reaction of some kind going on.  It seems that would be fairly easy to determine through examining for various kinds of radiation.  And that should be tested soon, so that people might not be inadvertently exposing themselves to dangerous radiation while experimenting with these things.

Whatever the model is of how this works, one of the first questions that should be confirmed is whether or not it really does work.  A bunch of replications would be great, both to validate the technology and to help answer the myriad of questions and to come up with practical embodiments that can be put to use as soon as possible.


Open Source


Rick has been using the "HSC Heavy Duty 33" for these recent experiments.  It retails at around $1200. (Disregard the higher price on the site, which needs to be updated.)

The thing that is nice about Rick's set-up is that the plans are already drawn up; and the units are presently available for sale at HydrogenSolutionsCenter.net  They have been available for purchase since at least January, 2010 for the typical hydroxy install scenario: ducting the hydroxy gas into the air intake to increase fuel efficiency and reduce emissions. It was featured on January 18, 2010 in the local news, Channel 8 in Logan.

Rick has agreed to work with us at PES Network to release his plans of how to build the unit from scratch, along with the added information about how he modified his set-up to achieve the above results. We intend to make plans available through an affiliate arrangement, sharing 50% of the revenue with the affiliate. As mentioned above, you can bypass the building from scratch part, and just purchase a completed cell, then add the necessary components (e.g. pressure regulators) to achieve the water fuel effect.

I think at least at first we should use the already-established Freddys_Cell forum at YahooGroups to discuss Rick's variant.  We might create a separate group if needed.  I would imagine there will be a lot of overlap in the concepts and discussion.

TEMPORARY MEMO: These plans are new, and as of yet no one has replicated the effect using the plans. Once replications have been reported and confirmed, then the price for the plans will increase.

If you wish to launch a commercial venture with the design, Rick asks for a 10% royalty, which he will share with PES, appreciating the service we provide to the free energy community.


Take it Easy on Rick and Freddy

As a result of his claim last month, Freddy has been overwhelmed with people trying to talk to him, ask him question, give him advice, etc.  He gets emails, Skype contacts, phone calls and visits at a rate that there is no way he can keep up with.  Several screening methods have been put in place to give him a break, but still, I think that people should be a little more sensitive to these things and try to contact the intermediaries first before bothering the main guy.

That is why I went with a wiki when establishing PESWiki back in 2004 -- it enables the community to build the site together, so that many hands can make light work.   As a publicly editable site, many people can help keep its contents updated, accurate, clear, and helpful.

Rick does not want to be inundated with email and phone calls.  Several of you know who Rick is.  Please use restraint in getting in touch with him.  He will be reporting his successes through us.  We have set up an email address for him: rick {at} pureenergysystems.com, which can be screened by assistants to help him get to the important emails that others can't answer on his behalf. We will also be setting up a FAQ page, replications report page, updates page, materials sourcing page, and other ancillary pages to help expedite the project.  You're welcome to help us build out the various project pages mentioned above, to help not overwhelm him like Freddy has been overwhelmed.

Furthermore, bear in mind that he is still busy replicating and improving the effect himself, as well as getting his plans compiled and to me so we can post them.  The more he is pestered by well-meaning people, the longer it will take for him to produce these documents that will help everyone, including you.


Epilogue

Wouldn't it be ironic if the auto industry has created the perfect platform for running a car on water, having unwittingly built into them the ability to run on this fuel that comes from pressurized HHOi and air!  It appears that both Freddy and Rick have been able to achieve function with minimal modification to the stock engine.  Their vehicle's computer works with the effect and enables it to run the car, without requiring manual tuning or adjustment.  Boyce said that he generally never messes with the car's computer but works with it.

While King wishes that researchers would try the huge leap first of running a car on water but to go with something smaller like a generator, it may be that the modern automobile is not the huge obstacle one might at first think.  It may actually be the perfect host for this set-up, being inadvertently engineered to handle the pressurized HHOi gas without any computer modifications.

Also, it is likely that of the hundreds of people pursuing commercial hydroxy units, that several of them also produce the HHOi gas that will work in this configuration (or could be leapfrogged to that point by using Rick's KCO3 electrolyte solution), so it will only be a matter of weeks or months, rather than years, before these products will start appearing in the marketplace.

Here are some take-home lessons to bear in mind:

  • Free energy from the environment is entering the system somehow, whether it be through zero point energy absorption or from solar power ionizing air, or both.  Don't waste you breath telling us how it is "impossible" for x amount of water to run a car.  Grow an imagination before posting or you'll just look like a backward fool to history once these things are proven out.
  • Hydrogen is not the key reactive element.  King points out the need to shift focus away from hydrogen because hydrogen production is not the objective of these systems.  In naming your systems and companies, try and shift away from usage of the word "hydrogen".  While it might make it less edgy because the mainstream doesn't have a problem with hydrogen, it isn't accurate.
  • "Living Water" might be a contributor here.  I forgot to mention that Rick's water comes from a spring.  Boyce points out that spring water is "alive" as opposed to well water, which is generally "dead".  It may be that the sun has a role in that as well.  Not all water is the same.  Care needs to be taken to consider what kind of water is being used (distilled, well, spring, city, etc), and should be noted in all reports.
  • King points out that the Potassium Carbonate (KCO3) as the electrolyte (plus a little base, which Rick's staff asked him not to divulge) may be the key ingredient here that enables an otherwise less-than-average cell to produce HHOi in abundance with very little H2 and O2.  It says on the box that Potassium Carbonate "lowers the surface tension of water," which King points to as being an important attribute for producing the charged water clusters.  Hendershot points out that KCO3 is consumed in the reaction and has to be replenished, so it is not a catalyst, making it an impractical electrolyte for commercial applications.  Meanwhile, I should note that the Hydrogen Solutions Center has the KCO3 + (trade secret) electrolyte solution available for sale.
  • Ionized molecules in the air may be a key player here, contributing to the effect.  Bear that in mind, and include relevant observations in your reports.
  • "Brown's Gas" is the general name for commonly-ducted gas coming off of water electrolysis.  According to Wiseman, there may only be one such thing as HHOi as a molecule.  The electrolysis unit, depending on its design, will produce the following species in various proportions: H2, O2, and HHOi.  One simple way to measure the ratio may be to see how much a balloon inflated with the electrolysis gas deflates over a period of time.  Pure HHOi will hardly escape.  In other words, if I understand correctly, there is no such thing as an HHO molecule of gas that isn't HHOi.  The only other gases will be H2 and O2.  This must be kept in mind when pressurizing the gas, as the different ratios are likely to behave differently under pressure.
  • Researching all of this is dangerous and possibly lethal.  Please be very careful.  You are dealing with easy-to-produce combustible gases with attributes that are not yet fully understood or characterized.  Be sure that you don't inadvertently leak HHOi into a place where it can accumulate and then be accidentally ignited.  Treat it like propane in that respect.  At least you can smell propane.  HHOi detectors would be nice to prevent the evil minded from using it to fill a room that is full of people, to then be ignited.  As soon as possible, all HHO researchers should have such a detector to place near the floor of their work space to prevent calamity.  I would think that the "ionized" part of the molecule would make creating a cheap detector fairly easy.  See George Wiseman's comment about preventing unwanted ignitions.

# # #

Special thanks to Sepp Hasslberger for his editing help.


Commentary by Mark Dansie

On September 27, 2010 12:33 PM mountain, Mark Dansie, who has traveled the world checking out various hydroxy claims, wrote:

Hi Sterling,

Some interesting thoughts and discussions. (especially George)

The best thing you can do on any device that claim they are just using HHO to self run is to do an emissions test. This has been the undoing of several scam artist (remember the water powered MC in NZ two years ago)

It is interesting how many people shy away when it comes to emissions tests. I could name a couple of more notable ones right now.

I would never publish any claims until they have been substantiated by a credible third party.

- - - -

On September 27, 2010 4:09 PM mountain, Mark added:

Hi Sterling

Your exuberance is one of your most likeable features, it is also your Achilles Heel.

* * * *

Commentary by George Wiseman

One of the pioneers of this field, George of Eagle-Research.com, provided the following on Sept. 26, 2010 7:33 PM mountain to include with this report: (slightly edited)

First: Although the BG production might be constant, the 'fuel' consumption is not. The engine's computer will vary the injector pulse width to control the amount of fuel that enters the engine. Obviously, some fuel systems have the capability to handle the different fuel. I wouldn't assume all do.

The reason I mention this is that your article reads like the engine can vary RPM at a constant production of BG; and that would be wrong.

I'm assuming Rick has some sort of pressure control on his electrolyzer, so that it cycles off when it reaches pressure, like Freddy. My electrolyzers have always used a direct acting pressure switch, so they hold the pressure to within 100th of a psi of my setpoint. Freddy and Rick might check out my Brown's Gas Book 2, for the simple pressure control system that would not require any physical pressure regulator.

So Freddy and Rick's electrolyzers will cycle on and off independent of the engine rpm, though tending to be ON more as more fuel is used.

The engine controls the consumption of fuel, and the consumption of fuel will increase as the engine load increases.

Next, our BG machines have always produced both lighter and heavier than air gasses. I named the heavier than air portion Electrically Expanded Water (EEW) years ago. It is a form of water that has NOT separated into oxygen and hydrogen and is combustible (it has a mild explosion, like a pop or whoosh, and then implodes into normal water). As you point out, it is easy to separate the gasses, by letting the BG sit in an open bottle for a few minutes. The EEW burns completely differently than hydrogen or full spectrum BG. In a clear 2 liter plastic bottle, it burns downward in an imploding ring (like a donut), taking almost a half second to reach the bottom of the bottle.

Conclusion: A great article, and it does look like open source is going to make this happen :) Good work :)

May the blessings be

George

- - - -

On September 27, 2010 7:29 AM mountain, Wiseman added:

Thank you for the update on the overlooked fuel hose. My original comments stand unchanged. I'd like to add some more.

Best idea (in addition to physically shutting off the fuel) is to remove the fuel pump relay (or in some way shut off the fuel pump), like Freddy did. This will prevent 'false' positives :)

I think you are right, since the modern injection system has proven to run both pure BG (HHOi) and a mixture of BG and fuel, it is an excellent avenue to explore; because it may seriously simplify the conversion to Water as Fuel.

And I'd like to add that BG (and all the other trade names of it) CAN be pressurized. My original electrolyzers ran at 70 psi and I never had a problem with it. I reduced the recommended pressure in my electrolyzers because I didn't NEED 70 psi to deliver the results I desired, and BG is safer at lower pressures. BG explosive potential increases dramatically at higher pressures and ALL of the BG derivatives CAN be ignited inside their tank or storage container because they are a COMBUSTIBLE mixture.

To prevent an internal explosion:

The first KEY thing to watch for is sharp points or edges of any kind and on any material. BG contains a 'static electricity' that accumulates on sharp edges and can build up enough potential to self- ignite the BG even at LOW pressure. For example, in 1997 I shipped an ER1150 WaterTorch to Australia. Once it arrived my customer reported that it would build pressure to 12 psi and then explode inside, re-pressurize and explode inside, etc. It had passed all tests here and worked fine before I shipped it. I had it shipped back and discovered that a spiral of metal, left over from drilling a hole, had shaken around during shipment so that it rested point up. That point was enough to ignite the gas. I then shipped the WaterTorch back to Australia and it's worked fine ever since. It was an expensive lesson (I've had many expensive lessons) that I've never forgotten.

Next is a relationship between pressure and temperature. Again, remember that the BG contains an internal energy of it's own. If the pressure rises too high and/or if the temperature rises too high, the gas will self-ignite. If you keep the gas cool, you can raise the pressure quite high. I do not know the exact relationship between pressure and temperature. It varies with the composition of the gas and the design of the chamber it's held in.

Safest is low pressure and low temperature, in a chamber with NO sharp edges or points.

High pressure makes a potential bomb and needs to be addressed, because someone, somewhere WILL have a tank explode. I like the idea of building the electrolyzers from plastic like Freddy did. If it explodes, the 'shards' cause little damage. If a shield is added to direct the flow of caustic fluid into a safe direction (usually down to the ground) then I'd consider the system reasonably safe. I have video of me standing next to a plastic electrolyzer, that exploded when operating at 70 psi (we had a backfire with an inadequate backfire arrester). The table it was under directed the sodium hydroxide down and I only got wet from the crotch down (I did have to change my pants). The flying pieces of plastic didn't even bruise me and I was 1 foot from it when it blew.

- - - -

On September 27, 2010 10:54 AM mountain, Wiseman responded to my email:

> I just talked to Rick.
>
> He said that he had "pulled out the relay from the fuel pump, but 
> you have to have a special tool to disconnect the fuel line."

That's true for most vehicles these days.  But to be sure you aren't losing gas back through the fuel pump (most have check valves but they can go bad) it'd be good to cut the fuel line somewhere and add a manual shutoff valve, a shutoff solenoid and/or a 3 way solenoid.  Of course, care would need to be taken to do it correctly, as some fuel systems can have quite high pressures.

> He's thinking that the remaining fuel in the fuel line could be 
> what was causing his effect.
>
> I doubt it.  Not for 2.5 hours of idling, while also periodically 
> revving up the engine to 3000 rpm during that time.

I agree.  I also agree that the 'other' fuel line is likely the pressure relief / fuel return line; which would NEVER provide fuel to the fuel rail if you have the fuel pump shut off and the fuel rail pressurized.

- - - -

On September 29, 2010 6:10 AM mountain, Wiseman wrote:

Sterling,

I had another thought last night. When feeding BG into a fuel-injection system, the pressure regulation of the fuel injection system needs to be addressed.

Most fuel-injection systems have some sort of pressure control falling into two categories:

1. A pressure regulator on or after the fuel rail with a return line to the fuel tank, which releases fuel pressure (back to the fuel tank) whenever it is higher than it's setpoint.

This type of system would be OK, in theory, if the pressure of the BG doesn't exceed the pressure regulator's setpoint. In practice a regulator designed for a liquid fluid is likely to leak when a gaseous fluid is applied to it.

In any case, if the BG pressure is too high, it will bleed BG back to the fuel tank, away from the injectors. In most modern fuel systems, excess gas pressure in the fuel tank is vented to the atmosphere. (I usually put in an additional vent to the engine air intake so I burn those vapors).

Obviously, you do not want to lose BG, so I recommend installing a shutoff valve on the fuel return line (as well as the fuel feed line).

2. A pressure regulator on or at the fuel pump itself.

This type of pressure regulator simply releases excess pressure back into the fuel tank right at the fuel pump.

In theory, because the fuel pump usually incorporates at least one check valve, this type of system should be OK for pressures exceeding the pressure regulator setpoint. In practice, again, the system is designed for liquids and thus should have a gas tight shutoff applied on the fuel feed line.

Some notes:

1. Modern fuel pumps are designed to be cooled by the gasoline flowing through them. So MUST be shut off if you are using no fuel.

2. Releasing pressure to control pressure (a lot of BG electrolyzers are designed this way too) is a VERY inefficient way to control pressure. You PAID FOR the energy to pressurize the fluid and now you are throwing that energy away. It is a much better idea to control fuel pressure by controlling the fuel pump with a direct acting pressure switch (like my electrolyzers) or a PWM circuit. Then you are using ONLY the amount of energy required to keep the pressure up.

The various inefficiencies in automobiles are a pet peeve of mine (don't even get me started on catalytic converters). But I learned long ago that the vehicle manufacturers don't value my opinion. If they did, we'd now be driving vehicles that exceed 200 mpg. Maybe, we'll just jump that step and run them on water :) My point here is that, in addition to the actual fuel system, it is a good idea to address the other vehicle inefficiencies as well, to reduce the power demand and make Water as Fuel a greater potential.

- - - -

On October 13, 2010 12:11 PM Mountain, Wiseman wrote:

Brown's Gas, Hydroxy, Green Gas, Aquygen, HHO, SG gas, Ohmasa Gas, etc. are all the same gas. When you split water and keep all the resulting gasses together, you get a mixture that is uniquely different than separating the gasses and then recombining them as 2 of H2 and O2 (as traditional electrolysis does).

I won't go into all the differences between BG and bottled (containerized pure) H2:O2 because that isn't applicable for this conversation. The point I'd like to make is that if you do NOT separate the gasses (mainly versions of oxygen and hydrogen in perfect mixture for combustion), then the mixture is EXPLOSIVE!

Yes. BG can be stored and be stable for years.

Yes. BG can be used in many gas applications, sometimes without modification of the appliance; but mostly the low gas density and high speed of combustion does require some modification, at least to orifices. I do NOT generally recommend it because using BG for heat is a waste of energy. There are a lot of less expensive ways to get heat. I only recommend BG when it is clearly the best option; like as a torch fuel or as a combustion catalyst or for health enhancement. If the BG is used, pure, the flames will burn through any pot. If you dilute the BG with air (so it won't burn through the pot), then you waste the energy you used to make it.

Yes. BG can be pressurized... IF:
1. There are NO sharp points anywhere in contact with the BG.
2. The BG is kept cool.
3. The pressure is not too high. I've worked extensively with 70 psi.

I've heard of people working with higher pressures but personally, after deliberately igniting a chamber at 70 psi, do NOT recommend it. Here we have the most explosive gas known to man. See the movie 'Outbreak' with Dustin Hoffman to see it used as a bomb. It is the most powerful explosion short of nuclear.

EVERY container that contains this gas (no matter what it's name) is a potential bomb. The force of the explosion rises much more as the pressure (gas density) is increased. A high pressure container of this gas is an explosion waiting to happen... and happen it will, to someone, somewhere. This is because, unlike any other stored gas, it is a COMBUSTIBLE (and therefore EXPLOSIVE) mixture... and under certain conditions can self-ignite.

BG requires electricity to make. If you are looking to store energy then my opinion is batteries are a safer solution.

Yes. BG seems to have a certain amount of over-unity; you can get more energy out than you put in. But I seriously recommend using it in ways that do NOT store the gas under pressure. My commercial WaterTorches use 8 psi, because that's all the pressure they need to operate a torch. When I use the BG as a combustion catalyst I use less than 1 psi.

Yes. BG can be safe, if the equipment is designed to handle explosions.

A portion of BG is implosive (and the total combustion is ultimately implosive) but BG contains H2 and O2 which will always explode first, then implode.

So my primary answer to the question of storage below is DON'T. It's inherently unsafe.

BG has many fabulous uses, which we (and many others) are developing. Uses involving storage of the gas are not on my list.

May the blessings be

George

* * * *

Commentary by Moray B. King

King composed the following on Sept. 26, 2010, 4:40 PM mountain to include with this report:

As inventors get better at making more powerful forms of HHO, it becomes more and more difficult to explain the enormous energy content that the gas manifests. Yull Brown suggested atomic hydrogen, some researchers have suggested ortho-hydrogen or para-hydrogen, and most recently "ionized HHO" (HHOi) has been offered. The excess energy of HHO is enormous with 6 liters per minute of uncompressed gas running 1 KW generators yielding outputs of over 800 watts [ref: Eaton & Sokol, ref: Oliver & Valentin]. Burning hydrogen in any form cannot account for this, especially since the internal combustion engine is only about 20% efficient. Moreover, the research of Eckman has shown that the gas is comprised mostly of charged water clusters, and researchers Surartt and Gourley have isolated the pure form of the water gas to show that it still exhibits all the welding anomalies of Brown’s gas. In particular the biggest established anomaly is its ability to vaporize tungsten, a feat beyond today’s welding torches. Burning hydrogen cannot account for it.

The hypothesis of charged water gas clusters fits the observations of Rick’s research. Charged water gas clusters are essentially the same form that Wiseman called "electrically expanded water." The similarities in anomalous behavior to the plasma charged clusters (a microscopic form of ball lighting discovered by Shoulders [ref]) imply that the clusters might activate and coherently couple to the zero-point energy (ZPE) as they are formed in the electrolyzer [ref: Water Fuel via ZPE]. If this hypothesis is correct, it means that the HHO community has inadvertently discovered a surprisingly simple means to tap the zero-point energy.

Perhaps the enhancement discovered by Ohmasa has yielded insight into how to make the best and purest form of the charged water gas. Ohmasa dramatically lowered the water’s surface tension with vibrating paddles at ~100 Hz. As he electrolyzed this water, it yielded a highly energetic form that could be compressed and stored. Other researchers who induce acoustical vibrations onto their electrodes seem to be accomplishing the same result. Chambers [ref: Xogen U.S. Patent 6,419,815] used a toroidal coil under the water driven at ~20 Hz to cause turbulent vibration as the charged water clusters would oscillate with the induced (oscillating) electric field surrounding the coil. It appears that Rick might have found a chemical means to lower the water surface tension to create even larger forms of charged water clusters to produce an energetic water gas that is heavier than air.

It is wonderful to see the sharing of information by the researchers in the HHO community. It is this sharing that is producing dramatic progress in the field. As more researchers realize that hydrogen is not the desired gas, they will use rough electrodes, smaller gaps (under 1 mm), reduce the electrolyte content, use less current, drive the electrolyzer with square waves that have a high voltage spike on the leading edge, cut back the input power, and lower the surface tension of the water to achieve the goal of producing the pure form of the charged water gas. It appears that the HHO community in their generous spirit of information sharing will be leading mankind to discover a new source of energy. Kudos to all participating!

* * * *

Comment from SmartScarecrow

On September 26, 2010 7:41 PM mountain, Gary Hendershot said:

Ok, a couple of minor technical points I think I can add … 

  1. HHO or HHOi or Brown’s gas or whatever you want to call it; the product of mono-vent electrolysis, will NOT self-ignite at pressures in excess of 12psi. I have personally worked with such gas at pressures in excess of 60psi without the gas combusting spontaneously. In fact, when compressed, it requires a spark with a much higher energy to cause ignition than it does at ambient atmospheric pressure. This is due to the conductive nature of the gas. As it is compressed, it becomes even more conductive and tends to short a potential ignition spark to ground.
  2. In experiments with a small single cylinder engine of less than 100cc displacement, under very controlled conditions, I was able to inject pressurized HHO gas via a standard automotive fuel injector directly aimed at the intake valve, only when that intake valve was opened. The gas was pressurized to 15-20 psi by means of the pressure created by the electrolysis action alone and was regulated with an adjustable pressure regulator intended for use with propane and Dwyer pressure switches that cycled power to my electrolysis device. Under these conditions, I was able to run the engine at its full rated 3600 rpm with roughly 700 cc per minute production of on demand HHO gas for every 10 cc of engine displacement. This beat the best performance I demonstrated publicly by nearly 30%. However, I was unable to get someone else to replicate the experiment which would have provided independent confirmation of the results, so I have not made such performance claims generally public.
  3. Under the best conditions I was able to create, without any concern for the efficiency of HHO productivity, making many times the volume of HHO required to satisfy the minimum requirements of the engine, the best I was able to obtain from my test system was roughly 2/3 the power output that the same engine would provide when run on gasoline. I was making such a large volume of HHO during these experiments, that it was possible to “flood” the small engine much the same way you might flood with gasoline and with similar results. My test setup was purposely very simplistic to eliminate as many variables as possible. As much as possible the engine was left stock with its 8:1 compression ratio and factory preset ignition timing of about 10° BTDC. In other experiments, I was able to convince myself that with a higher compression of 13:1, closer to 80% of the power output obtained from gasoline might be possible but these experiments were not conclusive.

In summary, there are some very easy things to look for that will give very clear indication if the vehicle is actually running on HHO or if some supplemental fuel such as might be provided by a vapor carb arrangement is being used to fool the investigator.

  1. The engine temperature measured at the exhaust manifold should be 200-300F, not the 600-1000F typical when run on petroleum distillates.
  2. You should be able to quite literally “CORK” the exhaust and the engine will continue to run, though it might sound a bit labored.
  3. An engine running on HHO has a rather unique sound to it. Sort of a hollow sound as opposed to the low growl.
  4. Unless a number of rather expensive modifications to the engine have been made, a gasoline engine should at best be able to support only about 70% the loading possible with the same engine run on gasoline.

I do not wish to discourage anyone or throw cold water on what might be the breakthrough many of us have hoped for. But I have myself traveled on three occasions distances of many hundreds of miles to see a demonstration of something similar to what is described. On all occasions, what I actually witnessed was disappointment. I suggest prudence and healthy skepticism with just a touch of hope.

Regards

Gary G. Hendershot
AKA: SmartScarecrow

- - - -

On September 26, 2010 11:04 PM, Gary added:

I and many others have experimented with KCO3 (potassium carbonate) over many years … no joy … 

With KCO3, initial productivity is increased over KOH/NaOH but the effect is VERY short lived as the KCO3 is a consumable, not a catalyst in the reaction … productivity with UREA is in all ways superior to KCO3 for similar reasons … 

The best electrolyte chemical commonly available is KOH with NaOH coming in a close second … Cesium Hydroxide is superior to either of those but is not commonly available without hazardous use permits … bottom line is that for brute force electrolysis to operate efficiently over extended periods of time a metallic hydroxide salt is the most effective compound to use …

- - - -

September 27, 2010 10:43 AM mountain, Gary responded:

George is wise and I feel I need to make my position on pressurizing the gas more clear. I am not a big fan of pressurizing HHO. The explosive potential of the gas needs to be respected and great care needs to be exercised whenever you try to put a larger volume in a smaller space by pressurizing the contents.

In my own experiments, there was never more than 2 liters of gas at atmospheric pressure compressed into a small bubbler attached to the feed for the fuel injector. The delivery tubes and the small "pre-injection" chamber were sturdy, made of stainless steel and were well grounded. I am very much aware that when you have a significant volume of this gas enclosed in a small space, an "unfortunate incident" could ruin your day. Delivery of the gas under pressure solves some problems, but creates some new challenges. I would caution anyone who decides to pursue this course to use everything they have learned to reduce risk.

The other thing that needs to be considered is the conductive nature of the gas. It's hard to notice when using 12v power as the source, but when you commonly work with electrolysis equipment in the 120v to 240v range, it becomes quite clear. Delivery and return tubing to/from my electrolysis equipment is typically made of Teflon, an excellent electrical insulator. A run of maybe 2 to 4 feet of such tubing delivers gas to the primary bubbler/reservoir and feeds fluid back to the electrolysis device. It is a simple matter to read a DC voltage on that bubbler and if you happen to touch one of the stainless steel fittings while the device is running you will get a healthy shock; even though there is 2-4 feet of insulating Teflon between the source of the electrical power and the point where the reading is taken.

This may be the source of what some interpret as "spontaneous ignition". Based on what I have seen, I am not convinced that the gas will ignite on its own just because it was put under pressure. I am sure there is some pressure level at which the gas will auto ignite, but I have never stumbled onto it. I think that most of the unfortunate incidents are caused by something sort of like George's piece of metal debris. And I would not be surprised to find that the source of the spark causing ignition was the power applied to the electrolysis device being conducted to a spark gap by the gas itself.

This might even be a characteristic that a sharp young fellow could figure out a way to exploit. 

* * * *

Comment from Freddy

On September 26, 2010 6:58 PM mountain, Frederick Wells wrote:

Praise Jesus. The Truth and nothing but the truth. I love it! You have our endorsement go man go.

* * * *

Comment from ZeroFossilFuel

On September 26, 2010 6:44 PM mountain, Zero wrote:

Funny how "it's cracked" or "it's waiting for a new part" every time an independent 3rd party wants to review it. Different builders, different stories, same result. <yawn> Also, HHOi is an impressive new buzz word but where are they getting the mystical "i" from? I'm a hard sell and I'm still not buying.

BTW, it may interest you to know I have just published my real world HHO assist run time test results to YouTube in videos #241 & 242.

P.S. HHO does not spontaneously combust at 12 psi. Who ever concocted that myth is a crackpot. It's much more dangerous to compress it in the event it does receive an ignition but that's it.

As far as I know, it does not have an autoignition pressure at all. It has an autoignition temp of 1085*F. But, it is easily ignited with even a small electrostatic discharge. That's why I regard compressing it as a death wish.

* * * *

 

Other Comments

Another Legend of Engine Running on Air

On September 27, 2010 5:05 PM, anonymous wrote:

This paragraph in today's post really caught my attention.

"I know of another researcher who claims that several years ago he was able to get his car to run on air alone after getting above 15 mph -- that the pressure of the incoming air was enough, and there was enough energy in the air from solar power ionizing molecules in the air, and his engine had enough of a combustion efficiency to actually utilize the air as fuel under that low pressure and flow. He temporarily abandoned this effect to first pursue something not so disruptive and difficult for people to believe."

The reason it did was because that is my "favorite". It was one of the first things I ever came across in this whole new energy search. It was 25 yrs ago when I was told by an acquaintance that he had personally witnessed an inventor show him an engine running with no fuel of any sort....just air. What he saw was a 9HP B&S but apparently he had a bigger engine also. Then about 6 yrs ago I came across an account from Sweden - I read a copy of the guys email - and it sounded very similar but this was with vehicle engines. Sadly, the guy with the original email lost the guys address. Both of these worked on stationary engines.........no minimum speed requirement.

* * * *

Not Pressure Regulators

On September 28, 2010 3:23 PM mountain, S.L. wrote:

In the article it is stated that: "To pressurize his HHOi gas, Rick uses two pressure regulators. One is positioned between his cells and the bubbler (which prevents backflash), and that one brings the pressure to 30 psi. The second pressure regulator is located between the bubbler and the fuel rail, and that one brings the pressure to 60 psi."

It will not work that way. You will only have 30 psi at the Fuel Rail. 

The only way to raise the pressure at the fuel rail to 60 psi is to have a pump raise it after the 30 psi regulator, or to have the Cell producing at least 60 psi of pressure.

You can progressively LOWER pressures with Pressure Regulators, but you can not raise the pressure.

* * * *

Related to Blacklight Power?

On September 28, 2010 8:47 PM mountain, Chad wrote:

As a chemist and aeronautical mechanic/engineer, and follower of Blacklight Power (BP) research, I had the thought that there may be some relation between any HHOi success and Blacklight Power.

I don't buy the layman mumbo-jumbo, but if someone does have success with HHOi, possibly it is due to a catalytic reaction in the metallic alloys (nickel?) used in the pistons, rings, valves, and/or cylinders. possibly compression aids in the catalytic process by forcing minute quantities of free Hydrogen (generated by the electricity) into the metallic surfaces, thereby initiating a Blacklight Power reaction, whereby the free Hydrogen is transformed into Hydrinos, generating a massive burst of heat and air/water vapor expansion.

- - - -

On September 29, 2010 10:50 AM mountain, Chad added:

If you look at the BP reactions, they all involve the same substances that are being used by HHOi people. Sodium Hydride, which may occur as the result of side-reactions in the electrolysis of water with Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate (baking soda), and other various salts composed of Postassium (+1), Calcium (+2), Magnesium (+2), etc, which occur naturally in water. This may also explain more success with "natural" water, compared to "distilled" water in HHOi research. to the best of my memory, BP first discovered the BP reaction with Sodium Hydride (NaH) using a Nickel-Raney Catalyst, which is, essentially, just a porous form of Nickel. Likewise, in a combustion chamber, there are likely similar metallic surfaces which may have catalytic potential with the additional benefit of high pressure (if not Nickel itself, which is a primary constituent of Stainless Steel). Thus, there possibly exists the primary elements necessary for a BP reaction inside a HHOi combustion chamber. If anyone studies BP reactions, and what a Nickel-Raney Catalyst is, they will understand. Hopefully that explains my thoughts more.


Related PES Coverage

See also

Resources at PESWiki.com

Page composed by Sterling D. Allan Sept. 26, 2010
Last updated May 05, 2011
 
 

Bestsellers


Scan Gauge II

Plugs in dashboard for instant mpg and other performance data.